4 ms·

> securing access to the pilot's cabin Well, no, actually it was impossible to get into the cabin from outside long before 9/11 (in fact, I think since the 70’

> securing access to the pilot's cabin Well, no, actually it was impossible to get into the cabin from outside long before 9/11 (in fact, I think since the 70’s). The hijackers smuggled box-cutters on board and used the box cutters to kill stewardesses until the pilot agreed to open the door - after which they had full access to the plane.

JohnFen 7y ago
> until the pilot agreed to open the door That's the problem -- that there was a door that could be opened. It seems to me that there shouldn't be. The pilots should have their own separate entrance from the exterior of the aircraft.
- AWildC182 7y ago
  Let's not add more unnecessary holes to pressurized aircraft... Also, the pilots occasionally need to be able to get back to the cabin for troubleshooting in emergencies and to use the toilet/crew rest.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    > the pilots occasionally need to be able to get back to the cabin for troubleshooting in emergencies and to use the toilet/crew rest. Toilet, crew rest, and meals can be provided in the pilot's cabin. Troubleshooting may be a good point, but perhaps it would suffice to have a tech in the non-cabin portion of the plane. In any case, it was just a thought. This is not an issue that I actually have a strong opinion about either way.
- oAlbe 7y ago
  Is that actually the problem though? Or is it that you are still here discussing of ways to prevent airplane hijacking in a world where cows still kill more people that airplane hijacking terrorists? I don't mean to come across as condescending, I believe that as long as we spend our time talking about possible "solutions" to what-if, abstract problems, without addressing the real issues, we are just going to waste our time.
  - marcoperaza 7y ago
    This is a pretty absurd thing to say. Natural or accidental deaths are different than planned attacks. There is no shortage of murderous, suicidal people. If you made it easier for them, more of them would go for it. The 3 successful attacks on 9/11 contributed something like an extra 20% to the US murder rate. That’s not insignificant. Also, we do spend an enormous amount of money on safety in the US. Why do you think the absolute cheapest new cars in the US are two to four times as expensive as new cars in countries that don’t have the same kind of safety standards (e.g. Mexico or India)? And because of the tort system, businesses spend untold amounts of money making their facilities and products safer in general.
  - austhrow743 7y ago
    Lot of people in the world and the commenters in this thread are not the worlds reduce death task force. Speculating on how to secure planes here has zero impact on others speculating about how to make cows less dangerous.
    - threatofrain 7y ago
      No but IMO the motivation to speak in these matters probably owes more to reducing death than specifically securing an airplane. Similarly, if someone is talking about chemical X in food, they are likely concerned with their health in general as opposed to a specific cause of chemical X. It would be a bit distracted to worry about chemical X when there are way more pressing issues on where to shine the limited spotlight of attention. Let those who are concerned with health speak to the spending of precious attention, and let those who are concerned with X discuss the loss of focus on X. Somewhere people will switch sides and a meta conversation will form in terms of resource allocation and framing.
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  > should have their own separate entrance I think they have to be able to get in and out to use the bathroom, though. And get some food.
AWildC182 7y ago
Which you can still totally do with zero effort? Razor blades/utility blades don't really show up well on the xray machines. If you know how the machines work you can get one through 100% of the time. Also, they don't forbid you from bringing an abrasive stone through with which you can make a shiv out of LITERALLY ANYTHING. What's changed is twofold. Physical access to the cabin, and the knowledge that no pilot will ever let another soul onto the flight deck no matter how many people they can shiv to death.

JohnFen 7y ago

> until the pilot agreed to open the door That's the problem -- that there was a door that could be opened. It seems to me that there shouldn't be. The pilots should have their own separate entrance from the exterior of the aircraft.

AWildC182 7y ago
Let's not add more unnecessary holes to pressurized aircraft... Also, the pilots occasionally need to be able to get back to the cabin for troubleshooting in emergencies and to use the toilet/crew rest.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > the pilots occasionally need to be able to get back to the cabin for troubleshooting in emergencies and to use the toilet/crew rest. Toilet, crew rest, and meals can be provided in the pilot's cabin. Troubleshooting may be a good point, but perhaps it would suffice to have a tech in the non-cabin portion of the plane. In any case, it was just a thought. This is not an issue that I actually have a strong opinion about either way.
oAlbe 7y ago
Is that actually the problem though? Or is it that you are still here discussing of ways to prevent airplane hijacking in a world where cows still kill more people that airplane hijacking terrorists? I don't mean to come across as condescending, I believe that as long as we spend our time talking about possible "solutions" to what-if, abstract problems, without addressing the real issues, we are just going to waste our time.
- marcoperaza 7y ago
  This is a pretty absurd thing to say. Natural or accidental deaths are different than planned attacks. There is no shortage of murderous, suicidal people. If you made it easier for them, more of them would go for it. The 3 successful attacks on 9/11 contributed something like an extra 20% to the US murder rate. That’s not insignificant. Also, we do spend an enormous amount of money on safety in the US. Why do you think the absolute cheapest new cars in the US are two to four times as expensive as new cars in countries that don’t have the same kind of safety standards (e.g. Mexico or India)? And because of the tort system, businesses spend untold amounts of money making their facilities and products safer in general.
- austhrow743 7y ago
  Lot of people in the world and the commenters in this thread are not the worlds reduce death task force. Speculating on how to secure planes here has zero impact on others speculating about how to make cows less dangerous.
  - threatofrain 7y ago
    No but IMO the motivation to speak in these matters probably owes more to reducing death than specifically securing an airplane. Similarly, if someone is talking about chemical X in food, they are likely concerned with their health in general as opposed to a specific cause of chemical X. It would be a bit distracted to worry about chemical X when there are way more pressing issues on where to shine the limited spotlight of attention. Let those who are concerned with health speak to the spending of precious attention, and let those who are concerned with X discuss the loss of focus on X. Somewhere people will switch sides and a meta conversation will form in terms of resource allocation and framing.
commandlinefan 7y ago
> should have their own separate entrance I think they have to be able to get in and out to use the bathroom, though. And get some food.

AWildC182 7y ago

Which you can still totally do with zero effort? Razor blades/utility blades don't really show up well on the xray machines. If you know how the machines work you can get one through 100% of the time. Also, they don't forbid you from bringing an abrasive stone through with which you can make a shiv out of LITERALLY ANYTHING. What's changed is twofold. Physical access to the cabin, and the knowledge that no pilot will ever let another soul onto the flight deck no matter how many people they can shiv to death.