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The threat of terror gives power to the State. Power seeks more power. The State does not erode freedoms in support of safety. The State erodes freedoms to achi
by 54thr 7y ago
The threat of terror gives power to the State. Power seeks more power. The State does not erode freedoms in support of safety. The State erodes freedoms to achieve more power. Terror is the excuse. It is the State's greatest tool.
- BucketSort 7y agoPeople say these types of things, but they don't revolt. Have we reached a point where we are okay with a corrupt government as long as amazon prime ships us our toys within two days? Convenience and comfort seems like it's worth more to people than liberty and a good conscience.
- godelski 7y ago> Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
- emptysea 7y agoThere's an interesting NPR interview on the origin of that quote: https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou... tl;dr; Franklin was defending government spending on defense
- godelski 7y agoInteresting read, thanks for that. I'll update the tldr with two quotes > It is a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security. It means, in context, not quite the opposite of what it's almost always quoted as saying but much closer to the opposite than to the thing that people think it means. > And maybe it doesn't matter so much what Franklin was actually trying to say because the quotation means so much to us in terms of the tension between government power and individual liberties. But I do think it is worth remembering what he was actually trying to say because the actual context is much more sensitive to the problems of real governance than the flip quotation's use is, often. I think the second quote is important, because sayings change over time and the meaning they hold changes too. That is the progression of language.
- jacobolus 7y agoThe sentiment is fine, but after someone knows the original context attributing this sentiment to Franklin out of context seems dishonest.
- jhayward 7y agoThat quote doesn't mean what many people assume it does. Franklin was actually supporting the authority of government to act/govern in the interest of collective security. [1] [1] https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...
- ta999999171 7y agoThe tyrants quote is harder to misunderstand.
- colordrops 7y agoThe state is made up of individuals. Who are these individuals that are seeking power?
- harambae 7y agoThe entrenched political class and those in (inevitably self-serving) government positions. See Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy.
- JohnFen 7y agoThe state, much like corporations, are operated by individuals but are not really "made up of" individuals in the way that your statement implies. They are machines that have their own goals, interests, and methods that are distinct from those of any of the individuals who help operate them.
- nine_k 7y agoIndividuals may only be seeking more power to better do their jibs and serve to the benefit of the people. But bureaucracy is just so evolves that it perpetuates the problem it was created to solve. Trivially, those agencies which reliably have achieved their goal get disbanded as no more needed, the only remaining in the long term are such whose goals are elusive. This is how well-intentioned, honest people try to grab more power for their agency, because it seems to help achieve that elusive goal. (To say nothing of people with less integrity in a position of power.)
- kiba 7y agoMore the other way around. They seek to do the impossible, and so they seek more power to do their job.
- throwthisaway2 7y agoAre you saying the state is effective? That there is no terrorism to counter act. The title seems to suggest the state needs more power or different tatics because there is terrorism that is not beong effectively acted againts.