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Or just use server log analytics. Client-side analytics are a significant contributor to the proliferation of JavaScript bloat and unnecessary 3rd party cookies

Or just use server log analytics. Client-side analytics are a significant contributor to the proliferation of JavaScript bloat and unnecessary 3rd party cookies.

guelo 7y ago
I've been surprised lately by how much more pleasant, readable and usable the news/blog-web is with JavaScript turned off. JavaScript is basically just used for the user-hostile ad-tech.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  I've been wondering about this recently: perhaps we'd actually be better off with simpler browsers that did less so that the websites would do less?
  - anderspitman 7y ago
    I've been thinking the same thing, and started[0] experimenting[1] with some ideas. I think it be fun to make a web browser that implements a few HTML tags, flexbox and a few other CSS primitives (no animations), and no JS. Sites that are compatible with it would still work on current browsers. [0] https://anderspitman.net/19/#netcatable https://anderspitman.net/19/#netcatable [1] https://anderspitman.net/17/#curlable https://anderspitman.net/17/#curlable
  - dvko 7y ago
    It's why I'm somewhat against WASM, even though it's very cool from a technical standpoint. It makes the web even more of an operating system, where I'd like it to be less.
- cholmon 7y ago
  I recently found https://text.npr.org/ https://text.npr.org/ (linked down in the footer of the main NPR site) and it made me very happy.
  - Semaphor 7y ago
    You automatically get that if you visit them from the EU and decline tracking, it’s amazing :)
awb 7y ago
Agreed if you're already self-hosting. However, I don't know of a JS-free solution if you're hosting on a 3rd party like GitHub pages or Netlify for example. (Netlify does sell access to log data but it looks expensive for most hobby / personal sites)
- Carpetsmoker 7y ago
  You can probably use the "tracking pixel" method with at least some analytics tools. This is a very old which probably predates even the invention of JavaScript. Basically, if it accepts a GET with query parameters, it should work.
  - awb 7y ago
    Right, but don't you still need to own a server in order to log these GET requests?
    - Carpetsmoker 7y ago
      You can do it with one of the hosted services. I don't know which ones support it exactly, but GoatCounter does (although it's kind of an undocumented feature until I merge PR #122).
      - awb 7y ago
        Cool, I saw GoatCounter on HN a few days ago. I've looked into ways to get a user count without JS and without paying for hosting, but no luck yet. If you find out what free services support it I'd love to know.
        Carpetsmoker 7y ago
        Well, GoatCounter does :-) But any service that sends something like "GET example.com/collect?path=/foo" can be loaded with an <img>. It's perhaps not an explicitly documented feature, but it will still work :-)
Carpetsmoker 7y ago
Depending on which solution you use; some of them are just a few KB, which is not so much. Doing log-analysis has its own drawbacks: not everyone has access to them, bot traffic will be a lot higher, and certain information is hard to access (like screen size). You can't always "just" use it.

Or just use server log analytics. Client-side analytics are a significant contributor to the proliferation of JavaScript bloat and unnecessary 3rd party cookies.

guelo 7y ago

I've been surprised lately by how much more pleasant, readable and usable the news/blog-web is with JavaScript turned off. JavaScript is basically just used for the user-hostile ad-tech.

Mirioron 7y ago
I've been wondering about this recently: perhaps we'd actually be better off with simpler browsers that did less so that the websites would do less?
- anderspitman 7y ago
  I've been thinking the same thing, and started[0] experimenting[1] with some ideas. I think it be fun to make a web browser that implements a few HTML tags, flexbox and a few other CSS primitives (no animations), and no JS. Sites that are compatible with it would still work on current browsers. [0] https://anderspitman.net/19/#netcatable https://anderspitman.net/19/#netcatable [1] https://anderspitman.net/17/#curlable https://anderspitman.net/17/#curlable
- dvko 7y ago
  It's why I'm somewhat against WASM, even though it's very cool from a technical standpoint. It makes the web even more of an operating system, where I'd like it to be less.
cholmon 7y ago
I recently found https://text.npr.org/ https://text.npr.org/ (linked down in the footer of the main NPR site) and it made me very happy.
- Semaphor 7y ago
  You automatically get that if you visit them from the EU and decline tracking, it’s amazing :)

awb 7y ago

Agreed if you're already self-hosting. However, I don't know of a JS-free solution if you're hosting on a 3rd party like GitHub pages or Netlify for example. (Netlify does sell access to log data but it looks expensive for most hobby / personal sites)

Carpetsmoker 7y ago
You can probably use the "tracking pixel" method with at least some analytics tools. This is a very old which probably predates even the invention of JavaScript. Basically, if it accepts a GET with query parameters, it should work.
- awb 7y ago
  Right, but don't you still need to own a server in order to log these GET requests?
  - Carpetsmoker 7y ago
    You can do it with one of the hosted services. I don't know which ones support it exactly, but GoatCounter does (although it's kind of an undocumented feature until I merge PR #122).
    - awb 7y ago
      Cool, I saw GoatCounter on HN a few days ago. I've looked into ways to get a user count without JS and without paying for hosting, but no luck yet. If you find out what free services support it I'd love to know.
      - Carpetsmoker 7y ago
        Well, GoatCounter does :-) But any service that sends something like "GET example.com/collect?path=/foo" can be loaded with an <img>. It's perhaps not an explicitly documented feature, but it will still work :-)

Carpetsmoker 7y ago

Depending on which solution you use; some of them are just a few KB, which is not so much. Doing log-analysis has its own drawbacks: not everyone has access to them, bot traffic will be a lot higher, and certain information is hard to access (like screen size). You can't always "just" use it.