7 ms·

There is a difference between being a slave i.e. being owned and being a "wage slave" i.e. operating under significant coercion. We are all coerced to some deg

There is a difference between being a slave i.e. being owned and being a "wage slave" i.e. operating under significant coercion. We are all coerced to some degree; that's part of being an organism (coerced by nature) and living in a society (coerced by the crushing weight of social interactions). But we aren't owned. Though it's not your intention, this blurring of categories justifies real slavery. If everyone is a slave then no one is a slave. If "bourgeois freedom" is an illusion then every kind of repression can be justified by the claim that it will bring about "real freedom". Actually, the freedoms that we have are real and they matter.

commandlinefan 7y ago
(Not OP but) I know it’s an unreasonable and probably inappropriate comparison, but I’m also old enough to have watched the demographics of professional computer programming shift from mostly white guys managing mostly other white guys to mostly white guys managing mostly brown people. I really don’t think it’s my imagination that at least some of the mostly white guys doing the managing have adopted more and more of a plantation-driver mentality.
- giggles_giggles 7y ago
  This IS an unreasonable and inappropriate comparison. Anecdotally I've been overworked by a diverse group of shitty bosses of a variety of races, nationalities, and genders over the years. Nobody has a monopoly on shitty management. Singling out white men as uniquely shitty managers and then slapping on "plantation driver" is super racist!
  - commandlinefan 7y ago
    Actually I meant I agreed that OP's comparison was (somewhat) unreasonable and inappropriate.
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  HN does have diverse commenters. In a single day, I managed to see 5 distinct comparison that I wouldn't have anywhere else. Note - this is only just an observation. Really amusing - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Nazi&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Slave&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
ianleeclark 7y ago
In Byung-Hul Chan's book, "Burnout Society," he lists this self-delusion of freedom as a foundational component of the emergence of burnout. It's a good book, I'd recommend it, and you can draw your own conclusions from reading it. It's like 80 pages, too. > But we aren't owned. This is a weird subjective/objective thing. While people may not be chattel slaves to a slaveowner, there is a case to be made of bonded/indentured labor for many. The view of chattel slavery seems to fit well into dominant narratives, as it relies on there being a subject who is enslaving another. Modern conceptions of indentured labor, however, are under an objective threat of violence, and this doesn't fit well into dominant narratives of how exploitation works. > If everyone is a slave then no one is a slave. There's nothing indicating that the parent comment believes that everyone is a slave. In fact, there's nothing indicating in the parent comment that he believes we are enslaved.
- hanche 7y ago
  Minor correction: The author’s name appears as Byung-Chul Han in the English translations of his books.

commandlinefan 7y ago

(Not OP but) I know it’s an unreasonable and probably inappropriate comparison, but I’m also old enough to have watched the demographics of professional computer programming shift from mostly white guys managing mostly other white guys to mostly white guys managing mostly brown people. I really don’t think it’s my imagination that at least some of the mostly white guys doing the managing have adopted more and more of a plantation-driver mentality.

giggles_giggles 7y ago
This IS an unreasonable and inappropriate comparison. Anecdotally I've been overworked by a diverse group of shitty bosses of a variety of races, nationalities, and genders over the years. Nobody has a monopoly on shitty management. Singling out white men as uniquely shitty managers and then slapping on "plantation driver" is super racist!
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  Actually I meant I agreed that OP's comparison was (somewhat) unreasonable and inappropriate.
thrwaway69 7y ago
HN does have diverse commenters. In a single day, I managed to see 5 distinct comparison that I wouldn't have anywhere else. Note - this is only just an observation. Really amusing - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Nazi&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Slave&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

ianleeclark 7y ago

In Byung-Hul Chan's book, "Burnout Society," he lists this self-delusion of freedom as a foundational component of the emergence of burnout. It's a good book, I'd recommend it, and you can draw your own conclusions from reading it. It's like 80 pages, too. > But we aren't owned. This is a weird subjective/objective thing. While people may not be chattel slaves to a slaveowner, there is a case to be made of bonded/indentured labor for many. The view of chattel slavery seems to fit well into dominant narratives, as it relies on there being a subject who is enslaving another. Modern conceptions of indentured labor, however, are under an objective threat of violence, and this doesn't fit well into dominant narratives of how exploitation works. > If everyone is a slave then no one is a slave. There's nothing indicating that the parent comment believes that everyone is a slave. In fact, there's nothing indicating in the parent comment that he believes we are enslaved.

hanche 7y ago
Minor correction: The author’s name appears as Byung-Chul Han in the English translations of his books.