4 ms·

Is that somehow wrong? What was so fundamentally changed in CS that makes teaching C obsolete?

by levosmetalo 7y ago

zozbot234 7y ago
We have Rust now which is a type-safe and memory-safe language. C is totally obsolete.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- pbourke 7y ago
  What’s the difference between Rustaceans and meth addicts? Meth addicts don’t make _everything_ about meth.
- briandear 7y ago
  We also have Swift. We also have <insert favorite language here>
michaelt 7y ago
The last release of Borland Turbo C was in 1988. That makes it an odd choice, considering gcc and clang are free and cross-platform. Hell, they even have a C89 mode if you'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before you recognise // style single-line comments.
- skocznymroczny 7y ago
  #include <conio.h>
- kdtop 7y ago
  Isn't this a bit like saying the last release of Ford's Model T was back in the 1930's? It is now called C++ Builder, and it is still regularly released. https://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder https://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder
  - dickeytk 7y ago
    what a fantastic landing page. Especially that gif. All editors should have something this good.
  - michaelt 7y ago
    Yes, if when arghwhat said Borland Turbo C to describe a product without Borland, Turbo, or C in its name that product might indeed have a different release date :)
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cesarb 7y ago
> What was so fundamentally changed in CS that makes teaching C obsolete? It's not C that's obsolete, it's MS-DOS and the 16-bit segmented memory model it uses.
- planteen 7y ago
  Totally agree. I've been making the same argument elsewhere on this thread. People are disagreeing with saying things were simpler back then. I don't know how anyone can have fond memories of a 16-bit CPU with segments or bank switching compared to a modern flat model and think it was simpler.
  - cesarb 7y ago
    > I don't know how anyone can have fond memories of a 16-bit CPU with segments or bank switching compared to a modern flat model and think it was simpler. "Fond memories" is easy to explain if that's what you grew up with. As for simpler, let me play devil's advocate for a bit: our "modern flat model" looks simple until you find out it's not really "flat". The 8086 model is basically "(segment << 4) + offset", while the "modern flat model" is actually a multi-level table lookup.
    - planteen 7y ago
      Yeah I guess that explains the fond memories part. Some 32-bit parts are totally flat. Like low-end ARM parts with SRAM and no MMU. Compare that to a 8-bit or 16-bit PIC microcontroller where you need to bank switch to have a usable amount of memory for your application and its heaven. But yeah, I see what you are saying. Still, pulling the wool over someone's eyes doesn't seem so bad to me about virtual->physical memory and TLBs as it does making them jump through a distinction between pointer types, but maybe I am in the minority on that.

Is that somehow wrong? What was so fundamentally changed in CS that makes teaching C obsolete?

zozbot234 7y ago

We have Rust now which is a type-safe and memory-safe language. C is totally obsolete.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pbourke 7y ago
What’s the difference between Rustaceans and meth addicts? Meth addicts don’t make _everything_ about meth.
briandear 7y ago
We also have Swift. We also have <insert favorite language here>

michaelt 7y ago

The last release of Borland Turbo C was in 1988. That makes it an odd choice, considering gcc and clang are free and cross-platform. Hell, they even have a C89 mode if you'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before you recognise // style single-line comments.

skocznymroczny 7y ago
#include <conio.h>
kdtop 7y ago
Isn't this a bit like saying the last release of Ford's Model T was back in the 1930's? It is now called C++ Builder, and it is still regularly released. https://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder https://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder
- dickeytk 7y ago
  what a fantastic landing page. Especially that gif. All editors should have something this good.
- michaelt 7y ago
  Yes, if when arghwhat said Borland Turbo C to describe a product without Borland, Turbo, or C in its name that product might indeed have a different release date :)

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cesarb 7y ago

> What was so fundamentally changed in CS that makes teaching C obsolete? It's not C that's obsolete, it's MS-DOS and the 16-bit segmented memory model it uses.

planteen 7y ago
Totally agree. I've been making the same argument elsewhere on this thread. People are disagreeing with saying things were simpler back then. I don't know how anyone can have fond memories of a 16-bit CPU with segments or bank switching compared to a modern flat model and think it was simpler.
- cesarb 7y ago
  > I don't know how anyone can have fond memories of a 16-bit CPU with segments or bank switching compared to a modern flat model and think it was simpler. "Fond memories" is easy to explain if that's what you grew up with. As for simpler, let me play devil's advocate for a bit: our "modern flat model" looks simple until you find out it's not really "flat". The 8086 model is basically "(segment << 4) + offset", while the "modern flat model" is actually a multi-level table lookup.
  - planteen 7y ago
    Yeah I guess that explains the fond memories part. Some 32-bit parts are totally flat. Like low-end ARM parts with SRAM and no MMU. Compare that to a 8-bit or 16-bit PIC microcontroller where you need to bank switch to have a usable amount of memory for your application and its heaven. But yeah, I see what you are saying. Still, pulling the wool over someone's eyes doesn't seem so bad to me about virtual->physical memory and TLBs as it does making them jump through a distinction between pointer types, but maybe I am in the minority on that.