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From a 2016 talk: "Possible some came from Cornwall though I rather doubt they went up there more than once in a blue moon. There are some tin mines in southern

by 1wd 7y ago

From a 2016 talk: "Possible some came from Cornwall though I rather doubt they went up there more than once in a blue moon. There are some tin mines in southern Turkey but not enough. The vast majority came from Afghanistan. Specifically the Badakhshan region of Afghanistan." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4&feature=youtu.be&t=1039 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4&feature=youtu.be...

chrisco255 7y ago
Is it unfeasible that the tin was traded from ancient Britain to ancient France to Ancient Greece to ancient Israel in sort of a chain rather than ships transporting them directly to Israel?
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  This over-land route was common, afaik. It may be one of the reasons the Greeks founded a colony near the Rhone delta: present day Marseille. Avoiding this route to sail directly to Northern Europe may also be why a Greek explorer from Marseille, Pytheas [1], gave us one of the first, if not the first, direct accounts of the British Isles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas
  - infradig 7y ago
    And Pytheas describes exactly how the tin got to the Mediterranean, at least in the 4th century BC.
- leoc 7y ago
  I'm not an expert, but I think it's a given that high-value durable goods like this could change hands many times. For example, probably no-one travelled all the way with the Indian metal objects which have been found in Britain: https://www.caitlingreen.org/2014/12/indian-silver-coins-in-viking-age.html https://www.caitlingreen.org/2014/12/indian-silver-coins-in-... .
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- keiferski 7y ago
  The Amber Road is also a possibility: From at least the 16th century BC, amber was moved from Northern Europe to the Mediterranean area.[2][3] The breast ornament of the Egyptian pharaoh Tutankhamen (c. 1333–1324 BC) contains large Baltic amber beads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Road https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Road
  - tremon 7y ago
    Using the amber road would be quite a detour here, I imagine. That would mean that instead of crossing the channel and traveling through France and Italy, or circumnavigating the Iberian peninsula, you think it's more likely the tin traveled from Britain, across Scandinavia, then to the Baltics, and from there southwards across Eastern Europe? Not that I have any knowledge of ancient trade routes, but to me having a trade route from Britain towards the northeast instead of southeast feels weird.
    - keiferski 7y ago
      Yeah, I don't know much about the actual trade routes, I was more pointing out that 'stuff from northern Europe' made it to Israel / the Levant. In any case, I don't think it's much more of a detour though, especially if we assume that it wasn't a specific journey, but a chain of multiple cultures interacting with each other. It doesn't seem implausible to me that tin went from Britain to Scandinavia then down the Amber Road, but I'm not a historian.
    - BurningFrog 7y ago
      I assume "trade routes" are emergent things. As in: Nobody decided "let's start a trade route from Egypt to Scandinavia!". Far more likely, people traded with their neighbors, and market forces led to goods step by step traveling to where they were most valued. Probably without Egyptians and Scandinavians ever having a clue the other group existed.
      - logfromblammo 7y ago
        I buy tin in one market town and sell it for 5% more at the market town a week's journey away. Or I load up my ship with tin in one port town and sell it for 20% more at the port town a month's journey away. That tin can go quite a distance without any one captain having to load up in Penzance and do a long haul all the way to the terminal end of the Mediterranean. But even that would have been possible, if anyone had enough knowledge of enough prices for common trade goods at enough of the ports along the way. One trip would make the owner, captain, and crew rich enough for it to be worth the risk.
- usrusr 7y ago
  Possible, but given the prominence of naval trade within the Mediterranean they might have been the ones running the northwestern hops as well.
jmorse2 7y ago
On the other hand, Herodotus describes islands off the north/west of Europe "from which we are said to have our tin" [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiterides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiterides
austincheney 7y ago
When I was in Afghanistan the mines in Badakshan were known for the high quality lapiz lazuli and pale colored jade that were traded in shops through out the country. There is an estimated $5 trillion in mineral deposits in the region, which is the second most valuable source of largely untapped natural resources on land.
- kiliantics 7y ago
  I believe Afghanistan is also home to the world's largest lithium deposits, which will become increasingly valuable for renewable energy

by 1wd 7y ago

chrisco255 7y ago

Is it unfeasible that the tin was traded from ancient Britain to ancient France to Ancient Greece to ancient Israel in sort of a chain rather than ships transporting them directly to Israel?

mytailorisrich 7y ago
This over-land route was common, afaik. It may be one of the reasons the Greeks founded a colony near the Rhone delta: present day Marseille. Avoiding this route to sail directly to Northern Europe may also be why a Greek explorer from Marseille, Pytheas [1], gave us one of the first, if not the first, direct accounts of the British Isles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas
- infradig 7y ago
  And Pytheas describes exactly how the tin got to the Mediterranean, at least in the 4th century BC.
leoc 7y ago
I'm not an expert, but I think it's a given that high-value durable goods like this could change hands many times. For example, probably no-one travelled all the way with the Indian metal objects which have been found in Britain: https://www.caitlingreen.org/2014/12/indian-silver-coins-in-viking-age.html https://www.caitlingreen.org/2014/12/indian-silver-coins-in-... .
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
keiferski 7y ago
The Amber Road is also a possibility: From at least the 16th century BC, amber was moved from Northern Europe to the Mediterranean area.[2][3] The breast ornament of the Egyptian pharaoh Tutankhamen (c. 1333–1324 BC) contains large Baltic amber beads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Road https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Road
- tremon 7y ago
  Using the amber road would be quite a detour here, I imagine. That would mean that instead of crossing the channel and traveling through France and Italy, or circumnavigating the Iberian peninsula, you think it's more likely the tin traveled from Britain, across Scandinavia, then to the Baltics, and from there southwards across Eastern Europe? Not that I have any knowledge of ancient trade routes, but to me having a trade route from Britain towards the northeast instead of southeast feels weird.
  - keiferski 7y ago
    Yeah, I don't know much about the actual trade routes, I was more pointing out that 'stuff from northern Europe' made it to Israel / the Levant. In any case, I don't think it's much more of a detour though, especially if we assume that it wasn't a specific journey, but a chain of multiple cultures interacting with each other. It doesn't seem implausible to me that tin went from Britain to Scandinavia then down the Amber Road, but I'm not a historian.
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    I assume "trade routes" are emergent things. As in: Nobody decided "let's start a trade route from Egypt to Scandinavia!". Far more likely, people traded with their neighbors, and market forces led to goods step by step traveling to where they were most valued. Probably without Egyptians and Scandinavians ever having a clue the other group existed.
    - logfromblammo 7y ago
      I buy tin in one market town and sell it for 5% more at the market town a week's journey away. Or I load up my ship with tin in one port town and sell it for 20% more at the port town a month's journey away. That tin can go quite a distance without any one captain having to load up in Penzance and do a long haul all the way to the terminal end of the Mediterranean. But even that would have been possible, if anyone had enough knowledge of enough prices for common trade goods at enough of the ports along the way. One trip would make the owner, captain, and crew rich enough for it to be worth the risk.
usrusr 7y ago
Possible, but given the prominence of naval trade within the Mediterranean they might have been the ones running the northwestern hops as well.

jmorse2 7y ago

On the other hand, Herodotus describes islands off the north/west of Europe "from which we are said to have our tin" [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiterides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiterides

austincheney 7y ago

When I was in Afghanistan the mines in Badakshan were known for the high quality lapiz lazuli and pale colored jade that were traded in shops through out the country. There is an estimated $5 trillion in mineral deposits in the region, which is the second most valuable source of largely untapped natural resources on land.

kiliantics 7y ago
I believe Afghanistan is also home to the world's largest lithium deposits, which will become increasingly valuable for renewable energy