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Honest question: what distinguishes DDG from Google or Bing? Why shouldn’t they (or won’t they) follow the same trajectory as our once beloved “don’t be evil” G

by dfee 7y ago

Honest question: what distinguishes DDG from Google or Bing? Why shouldn’t they (or won’t they) follow the same trajectory as our once beloved “don’t be evil” Google of the late 2000s? I’ve used DDG off and on, and I think the interface is fine (perhaps better these days as Google seems to have gotten worse), but I see the idea of selling clicks as being too lucrative. Are we just rooting for the downfall of the incumbent / the rise of the underdog?

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
> [You Either Die a Hero, or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become the Villain] There is nothing to say what happened to Google wouldn’t happen to other companies. I assume some leaders have more self-control. But... I think the larger issue at hand isn’t to prevent it with Just One More Law (tm) or anything like that, but to instead actively chose to not use a fallen companies product and increase the awareness that Cool Company is now Evil Company. Let the problem correct itself.
sansnomme 7y ago
Because their business model is built on privacy and not necessarily search tech. See my previous comment on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22078338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22078338 In many ways they are more like a VPN company — a proxy for hire. If they want to expand, a good way would be to acquire Keybase or maybe something like https://bloom.sh https://bloom.sh and continue exploiting the inferior Google alternatives market.
- ramblerman 7y ago
  A business model implies making some sort of profit. How are they funding themselves currently?
  - soraminazuki 7y ago
    Contextual ads that don't spy on you. https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/company/advertising-and-affiliates/ https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/company/ad...
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- bagacrap 7y ago
  That's less of a business model and more of a marketing campaign. As a business model, enhanced privacy sucks bc it yields reduced profits until the day a significant portion of the money-spending population decides to make decisions based on privacy.
catalogia 7y ago
Don't wed yourself to any brand for life. When the day comes that DuckDuckGo becomes a villain, drop them like a hot rock. > Are we just rooting for the downfall of the incumbent / the rise of the underdog? Until somebody comes up with a better idea, yes.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
They sell clicks, but non-tracked, non-invasive keyword clicks. Which of course means a search for iphone 11 will have some paid ads to click on. As they've built their user base on privacy and those unhappy with Google, it's very unlikely the user base would shrug and carry on if DDG switch to Google mode tracking with all the dubious extras of data collection, and retargeting etc. Not that it's going to work though, as DDG have um, DDG search. No platform, no phone, no analytics, home speaker, fonts, domain registry, email etc, ad nauseum. So where to collect the data until they're a FANG monster with a finger in every pie? So we either see it coming a long time off, or DDG become a privacy focused monster with fingers in lots of privacy aware pies. Or stay as just DDG privacy friendly search.
- bagacrap 7y ago
  They make money from affiliate links too. IOW their "organic" search results are actually money-making advertisements. Obviously DDG claims this revenue doesn't influence search rankings, but if you're the kind of cynic who tars all tech companies with the FB brush, I don't know why you'd believe that. Also, while the ads shown to you may not use as many personalized signals as Google, they are syndicated through Yahoo/Bing which means if you ever click on one, that ad network knows that much more about you. They are tracking you just as much as Google, you just don't get the benefit of increased ad relevancy. So I really don't understand the win, except inasmuch as a lot of commenters on HN hate all things Google and this gives them a way to unplug.
hdespiritu 7y ago
There's obviously no guarantee in the long run, but Gabriel Weinberg (DDG founder) is arguably one of the most holistic tech founders when it comes to tackling socially impactful problems in tech probably due to his interdisciplinary background. He's detailed his approach in a variety of podcasts and blog posts over the years https://medium.com/@yegg/mental-models-i-find-repeatedly-useful-936f1cc405d https://medium.com/@yegg/mental-models-i-find-repeatedly-use... https://fs.blog/gabriel-weinberg/ https://fs.blog/gabriel-weinberg/

by dfee 7y ago

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago

> [You Either Die a Hero, or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become the Villain] There is nothing to say what happened to Google wouldn’t happen to other companies. I assume some leaders have more self-control. But... I think the larger issue at hand isn’t to prevent it with Just One More Law (tm) or anything like that, but to instead actively chose to not use a fallen companies product and increase the awareness that Cool Company is now Evil Company. Let the problem correct itself.

sansnomme 7y ago

Because their business model is built on privacy and not necessarily search tech. See my previous comment on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22078338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22078338 In many ways they are more like a VPN company — a proxy for hire. If they want to expand, a good way would be to acquire Keybase or maybe something like https://bloom.sh https://bloom.sh and continue exploiting the inferior Google alternatives market.

ramblerman 7y ago
A business model implies making some sort of profit. How are they funding themselves currently?
- soraminazuki 7y ago
  Contextual ads that don't spy on you. https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/company/advertising-and-affiliates/ https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/company/ad...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
bagacrap 7y ago
That's less of a business model and more of a marketing campaign. As a business model, enhanced privacy sucks bc it yields reduced profits until the day a significant portion of the money-spending population decides to make decisions based on privacy.

catalogia 7y ago

Don't wed yourself to any brand for life. When the day comes that DuckDuckGo becomes a villain, drop them like a hot rock. > Are we just rooting for the downfall of the incumbent / the rise of the underdog? Until somebody comes up with a better idea, yes.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

They sell clicks, but non-tracked, non-invasive keyword clicks. Which of course means a search for iphone 11 will have some paid ads to click on. As they've built their user base on privacy and those unhappy with Google, it's very unlikely the user base would shrug and carry on if DDG switch to Google mode tracking with all the dubious extras of data collection, and retargeting etc. Not that it's going to work though, as DDG have um, DDG search. No platform, no phone, no analytics, home speaker, fonts, domain registry, email etc, ad nauseum. So where to collect the data until they're a FANG monster with a finger in every pie? So we either see it coming a long time off, or DDG become a privacy focused monster with fingers in lots of privacy aware pies. Or stay as just DDG privacy friendly search.

bagacrap 7y ago
They make money from affiliate links too. IOW their "organic" search results are actually money-making advertisements. Obviously DDG claims this revenue doesn't influence search rankings, but if you're the kind of cynic who tars all tech companies with the FB brush, I don't know why you'd believe that. Also, while the ads shown to you may not use as many personalized signals as Google, they are syndicated through Yahoo/Bing which means if you ever click on one, that ad network knows that much more about you. They are tracking you just as much as Google, you just don't get the benefit of increased ad relevancy. So I really don't understand the win, except inasmuch as a lot of commenters on HN hate all things Google and this gives them a way to unplug.

hdespiritu 7y ago

There's obviously no guarantee in the long run, but Gabriel Weinberg (DDG founder) is arguably one of the most holistic tech founders when it comes to tackling socially impactful problems in tech probably due to his interdisciplinary background. He's detailed his approach in a variety of podcasts and blog posts over the years https://medium.com/@yegg/mental-models-i-find-repeatedly-useful-936f1cc405d https://medium.com/@yegg/mental-models-i-find-repeatedly-use... https://fs.blog/gabriel-weinberg/ https://fs.blog/gabriel-weinberg/