5 ms·

The questions you are posing make it clear that you don't understand the issue at hand, much less the broader context behind these data laws. Companies have inv

The questions you are posing make it clear that you don't understand the issue at hand, much less the broader context behind these data laws. Companies have invested much more $$$ and resources for much less reward. Also, everything is legal as long as your lawyers sign off.

scarface74 7y ago
I perfectly understand how public/private key encryption works. Can you find any citations to support your specific claims that Apple is sending user’s private keys from their devices and giving those keys to China?
- president 7y ago
  Tell me how you think public/private keys helps Apple from skirting Chinese law that stipulates that they must provide access to user data.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    It doesn’t by itself - but you have neither shown that Apple has surreptitiously uploaded user’s private keys in China or that it was required to do so.
    - resfirestar 7y ago
      I think the overlooked answer in this conversation is that Apple doesn't need to modify their service for China at all. In in all countries, they hold the encryption keys for most user data. Only these things are E2E encrypted[1]: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords You might say "what about iMessage". The link has that answer, too: >Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. This means Apple can produce the data a government is looking for in virtually all cases, and that's probably good enough for China. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Or you can specifically turn off iCloud for iMessages in settings....
        resfirestar 7y ago
        Maybe the fraction of users who do that is small enough that China won't push them on it. Or (this would be relatively easy to check) they could just hide that option in settings when the device region is China. Another factor to consider is that SMS and iMessage are rarely used in China due to SMS historically being more expensive than email/data over there.
        scarface74 7y ago
        That brings up another point. How important is iMessage in China? The iPhone’s market share in China is small and statistically when you’re using iMessage you would probably be sending a message to a none Apple device over unencrypted SMS. Email is the least secure method of sending data and always has been.
        scarface74 7y ago
        That brings up another point. How important is iMessage in China? The iPhone’s market share in China is small and statistically when you’re using iMessage you would probably be sending a message to a none Apple device over unencrypted SMS. Email is the least secure method of sending data and always has been. I’ve never paid attention to it until now, but you can selectively disable iCloud backups for any of the built in apps and third party apps in settings.
        anticensor 7y ago
        > Or (this would be relatively easy to check) they could just hide that option in settings when the device region is China. A placebo toggle is also an option.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]

scarface74 7y ago

I perfectly understand how public/private key encryption works. Can you find any citations to support your specific claims that Apple is sending user’s private keys from their devices and giving those keys to China?

president 7y ago
Tell me how you think public/private keys helps Apple from skirting Chinese law that stipulates that they must provide access to user data.
- scarface74 7y ago
  It doesn’t by itself - but you have neither shown that Apple has surreptitiously uploaded user’s private keys in China or that it was required to do so.
  - resfirestar 7y ago
    I think the overlooked answer in this conversation is that Apple doesn't need to modify their service for China at all. In in all countries, they hold the encryption keys for most user data. Only these things are E2E encrypted[1]: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords You might say "what about iMessage". The link has that answer, too: >Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. This means Apple can produce the data a government is looking for in virtually all cases, and that's probably good enough for China. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Or you can specifically turn off iCloud for iMessages in settings....
      - resfirestar 7y ago
        Maybe the fraction of users who do that is small enough that China won't push them on it. Or (this would be relatively easy to check) they could just hide that option in settings when the device region is China. Another factor to consider is that SMS and iMessage are rarely used in China due to SMS historically being more expensive than email/data over there.
        scarface74 7y ago
        That brings up another point. How important is iMessage in China? The iPhone’s market share in China is small and statistically when you’re using iMessage you would probably be sending a message to a none Apple device over unencrypted SMS. Email is the least secure method of sending data and always has been.
        scarface74 7y ago
        That brings up another point. How important is iMessage in China? The iPhone’s market share in China is small and statistically when you’re using iMessage you would probably be sending a message to a none Apple device over unencrypted SMS. Email is the least secure method of sending data and always has been. I’ve never paid attention to it until now, but you can selectively disable iCloud backups for any of the built in apps and third party apps in settings.
        anticensor 7y ago
        > Or (this would be relatively easy to check) they could just hide that option in settings when the device region is China. A placebo toggle is also an option.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]