5 ms·

Abolish public schools. Nothing crushes the desire to learn faster and more effectively than public schools.

sosodev 7y ago
That’s a really bold statement. Are you advocating that people only learn if they desire to? That sounds like a huge step back for society in my opinion
- generalpass 7y ago
  > That’s a really bold statement. Are you advocating that people only learn if they desire to? That sounds like a huge step back for society in my opinion Are you suggesting people have never learned anything without going to public schools? I'm not talking about something distant from my personal experience: I spent 13 years in public schools and it was a hugely counterproductive experience.
  - sosodev 7y ago
    I’m not suggesting that people never learned without public school, but I firmly believe that the majority of people learned very little. I didn’t like school much myself but I think you’d have to be pretty jaded to say you or anyone else would have been better off without it.
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  > people only learn if they desire to Not OP, but I think the answer to your question is yes (but I also don't think banning public schools is a good idea either). I remember hating school when I was in it, but in spite of my best efforts to resist knowledge, some of it stuck around in my brain anyway. Later, when I found myself motivated and wanting to learn, the techniques I got from my education about _how to learn_ were still there, waiting to be unlocked. You can’t make a man learn any more than you can make a horse drink, but you can leave the tools laying around for when he needs them.
  - sosodev 7y ago
    But you’re imagining an ideal society in which most people would choose to learn. If history is any indicator most would choose not to or even worse be unable to. For a long time education was a privilege only enjoyed by the wealthy.
    - generalpass 7y ago
      History teaches us that a Prussian general invented public school to create obedient soldiers. The purpose of school is not to teach people to learn, but to teach them to obey.
      - sosodev 7y ago
        Okay buddy. A cursory search for what you're saying only turns up conspiracy theories but I'll ignore that. If you were to have it your way, and abolish public schools, what would you propose as the alternative if anything?
        generalpass 7y ago
        > Okay buddy. A cursory search for what you're saying only turns up conspiracy theories but I'll ignore that. > If you were to have it your way, and abolish public schools, what would you propose as the alternative if anything? Yes, only listen to the history that the obedience centers have provided you to memorize. It is well known that such centers do not teach critical thinking, because for certain you will place John Taylor Gatto into the category of "conspiracy theorist" as evaluating anything you have not been provided for memorization will require critical thinking (even, you know, looking at those funny numbers placed in the text). I'm not a central planner but I know that parents work to make certain their children are educated. I cannot tell you how USSR best converted its empty grocery stores and rotting field crops into stocked grocery stores and harvested crops other than to say remove the interference of the government and let people choose. Developing nations commonly have privately funded schools operating on shoe-string budgets that outperform pretty much all of the "indispensable and irreplaceable" inner-city (and ignored rural) public schools. Public schools are thick bureaucracies that reward employees for seniority and people who know how to follow orders and fill out forms. They have no accountability when they have a failing product (human beings!) and all employees get pensions and are nearly impossible to fire. The service is provided free of charge while taxing nearly as much money as desired. They attempt to measure school results through standardized testing, which operates under the assumption that there is a standard person we are all supposed to be become. Then they teach to the test only, so despite where a child may have interests, the test is all that matters so the school can get better funding. Teachers receive special training so that they understand how to have more influence over a child than the child's parent. They go to conferences in Florida to learn this wonderful skill.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
Abolish private schools. You can be sure that the people in power will make sure public schools are properly funded.
- generalpass 7y ago
  > Abolish private schools. > You can be sure that the people in power will make sure public schools are properly funded. Yes, the best way to get the populace blindly pledge allegiance to your dear leader.
- PhaedrusV 7y ago
  We're already spending more per student on public school than private school, on average. When you factor in low-cost high-benefit options like homeschooling, the amount we're already spending on shit outcomes for public school looks even more ridiculous. Costs: https://www.gobankingrates.com/saving-money/education/private-school-cost-vs-public-school/ https://www.gobankingrates.com/saving-money/education/privat... Homeschooling performance: https://www.topmastersineducation.com/homeschooled/ https://www.topmastersineducation.com/homeschooled/

That’s a really bold statement. Are you advocating that people only learn if they desire to? That sounds like a huge step back for society in my opinion

generalpass 7y ago
> That’s a really bold statement. Are you advocating that people only learn if they desire to? That sounds like a huge step back for society in my opinion Are you suggesting people have never learned anything without going to public schools? I'm not talking about something distant from my personal experience: I spent 13 years in public schools and it was a hugely counterproductive experience.
- sosodev 7y ago
  I’m not suggesting that people never learned without public school, but I firmly believe that the majority of people learned very little. I didn’t like school much myself but I think you’d have to be pretty jaded to say you or anyone else would have been better off without it.
commandlinefan 7y ago
> people only learn if they desire to Not OP, but I think the answer to your question is yes (but I also don't think banning public schools is a good idea either). I remember hating school when I was in it, but in spite of my best efforts to resist knowledge, some of it stuck around in my brain anyway. Later, when I found myself motivated and wanting to learn, the techniques I got from my education about _how to learn_ were still there, waiting to be unlocked. You can’t make a man learn any more than you can make a horse drink, but you can leave the tools laying around for when he needs them.
- sosodev 7y ago
  But you’re imagining an ideal society in which most people would choose to learn. If history is any indicator most would choose not to or even worse be unable to. For a long time education was a privilege only enjoyed by the wealthy.
  - generalpass 7y ago
    History teaches us that a Prussian general invented public school to create obedient soldiers. The purpose of school is not to teach people to learn, but to teach them to obey.
    - sosodev 7y ago
      Okay buddy. A cursory search for what you're saying only turns up conspiracy theories but I'll ignore that. If you were to have it your way, and abolish public schools, what would you propose as the alternative if anything?
      - generalpass 7y ago
        > Okay buddy. A cursory search for what you're saying only turns up conspiracy theories but I'll ignore that. > If you were to have it your way, and abolish public schools, what would you propose as the alternative if anything? Yes, only listen to the history that the obedience centers have provided you to memorize. It is well known that such centers do not teach critical thinking, because for certain you will place John Taylor Gatto into the category of "conspiracy theorist" as evaluating anything you have not been provided for memorization will require critical thinking (even, you know, looking at those funny numbers placed in the text). I'm not a central planner but I know that parents work to make certain their children are educated. I cannot tell you how USSR best converted its empty grocery stores and rotting field crops into stocked grocery stores and harvested crops other than to say remove the interference of the government and let people choose. Developing nations commonly have privately funded schools operating on shoe-string budgets that outperform pretty much all of the "indispensable and irreplaceable" inner-city (and ignored rural) public schools. Public schools are thick bureaucracies that reward employees for seniority and people who know how to follow orders and fill out forms. They have no accountability when they have a failing product (human beings!) and all employees get pensions and are nearly impossible to fire. The service is provided free of charge while taxing nearly as much money as desired. They attempt to measure school results through standardized testing, which operates under the assumption that there is a standard person we are all supposed to be become. Then they teach to the test only, so despite where a child may have interests, the test is all that matters so the school can get better funding. Teachers receive special training so that they understand how to have more influence over a child than the child's parent. They go to conferences in Florida to learn this wonderful skill.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

Abolish private schools. You can be sure that the people in power will make sure public schools are properly funded.

generalpass 7y ago
> Abolish private schools. > You can be sure that the people in power will make sure public schools are properly funded. Yes, the best way to get the populace blindly pledge allegiance to your dear leader.
PhaedrusV 7y ago
We're already spending more per student on public school than private school, on average. When you factor in low-cost high-benefit options like homeschooling, the amount we're already spending on shit outcomes for public school looks even more ridiculous. Costs: https://www.gobankingrates.com/saving-money/education/private-school-cost-vs-public-school/ https://www.gobankingrates.com/saving-money/education/privat... Homeschooling performance: https://www.topmastersineducation.com/homeschooled/ https://www.topmastersineducation.com/homeschooled/