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I'm not actually convinced unit testing is all that valuable, unless the unit under test has a very clear input -> output transformation (like algorithms, strin

by umvi 7y ago

I'm not actually convinced unit testing is all that valuable, unless the unit under test has a very clear input -> output transformation (like algorithms, string utilities, etc). If it doesn't (and most units don't), unit tests just encumber you.

Twisol 7y ago
The value of unit tests when creating software is perhaps debatable, but I find their greatest value to be in maintaining software. If you lock in your expectations of a software component, when it's time to make changes (due to shifting requirements or what not), you can add tests capturing your intent and make sure that you aren't breaking existing expectations. Or at least, that you know which expectations your change will break.
Eikon 7y ago
I’m really glad to read that. I never understood the whole religion around unit tests. Integration tests are often far easier to write and far more valuable. Like you said, unit tests are really nice when testing for a known, expected output. Unit tests that are effectively testing mocks and crazy stubs because your method has side effects? Not for me.
- coliveira 7y ago
  It is easy to explain: unit tests give a documented proof that you care about code robustness. It is used more for social and psychological effect than for its advantages. In fact, outside a few domains, unit tests make it harder to evolve software because the more tests you write, the harder it is to make changes that move the design in a different direction. This is, by the way, my main problem with verbose techniques of programming: the more you have to code, the harder to make needed changes.
- gbacon 7y ago
  Integration tests can be easier to write, are necessary, but can also be much slower to run. Yes, it’s possible to write bad unit tests; the same is true of integration tests. You need both unit tests and integration tests.
hnick 7y ago
Yes I worked in a print production industry and unit testing was almost impossible. To generate a string of text reliably and correctly is not difficult, but to position it on the page respecting other elements, flow, overlap, current branded font and size, and white space - unit testing is basically useless. And these are the errors we faced most.

by umvi 7y ago

Twisol 7y ago

The value of unit tests when creating software is perhaps debatable, but I find their greatest value to be in maintaining software. If you lock in your expectations of a software component, when it's time to make changes (due to shifting requirements or what not), you can add tests capturing your intent and make sure that you aren't breaking existing expectations. Or at least, that you know which expectations your change will break.

Eikon 7y ago

I’m really glad to read that. I never understood the whole religion around unit tests. Integration tests are often far easier to write and far more valuable. Like you said, unit tests are really nice when testing for a known, expected output. Unit tests that are effectively testing mocks and crazy stubs because your method has side effects? Not for me.

coliveira 7y ago
It is easy to explain: unit tests give a documented proof that you care about code robustness. It is used more for social and psychological effect than for its advantages. In fact, outside a few domains, unit tests make it harder to evolve software because the more tests you write, the harder it is to make changes that move the design in a different direction. This is, by the way, my main problem with verbose techniques of programming: the more you have to code, the harder to make needed changes.
gbacon 7y ago
Integration tests can be easier to write, are necessary, but can also be much slower to run. Yes, it’s possible to write bad unit tests; the same is true of integration tests. You need both unit tests and integration tests.

hnick 7y ago

Yes I worked in a print production industry and unit testing was almost impossible. To generate a string of text reliably and correctly is not difficult, but to position it on the page respecting other elements, flow, overlap, current branded font and size, and white space - unit testing is basically useless. And these are the errors we faced most.