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This is sloppy philosphy. Symbolism is clearly defined, but "actual meaningful moments" is a culturally subjective term without actual meaning. Furthermore, sy

This is sloppy philosphy. Symbolism is clearly defined, but "actual meaningful moments" is a culturally subjective term without actual meaning. Furthermore, symbols are largely how our species interprets and experiences reality. Symbols provide meaning. Without them, moments are mere streams of phenomenon.

theboywho 7y ago
Symbolism is as subjective as it gets, an act can be interpreted as heroic by some people while others might think it's stupid. Meaningful moments don't exclude symbolic ones, they extend them by including banal moments like having an ice cream with your kid and enjoying it.
- justforyou 7y ago
  Having an ice cream with your kids and enjoying it is only meaningful due to the cultural symhols and context present in the scenario. Otherwise, you're just hijacking short term reward systems and facilitating the consumption of empty calories to the (health) detriment of all parties involved. There's no inherent meaning in the scenario. Sounds like you are conflating meaning with the felt quality of immediate experience.
  - theboywho 7y ago
    I don't agree. It's not necessary meaningful _only_ for symbolic reasons, in fact, you chose to give it meaning that way. You can also simply enjoy the fact your kid is happy and you are having a solitude moment with somebody who you love and who loves you back. In the same way you would enjoy a good tasting Apple, or hot water touching your skin, etc. Unless you are saying that humans are incapable of enjoying life outside of cultural symbols. You seem to be conflating "am I enjoying this moment?" with "does what I'm doing matter?"
    - justforyou 7y ago
      If what you say is true, eating apples would be a universal joy. That's not the case. Food preferences / aversions are a product of culture. The ability to ask both "am I enjoying this moment?" and "does what I'm doing matter?" is a byproduct of symbolic thinking. Culture is both the vector for those symbols and the product of them.
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        > If what you say is true, eating apples would be a universal joy That doesn't follow from anything the grandparent said. > Food preferences / aversions are a product of culture. They are certainly subjective, and culture has some influence on them, but “product of culture” is far overstating the case. Food preferences exist without culture for purely (though still varying across individuals, because biology does) biological reasons. > The ability to ask both "am I enjoying this moment?" and "does what I'm doing matter?" is a byproduct of symbolic thinking. Insofar as all use of language is, and this the ability to ask any question framed in words is, certainly. It's less clear whether the ability to distinguish momentary enjoyment from significance is, because we don't really have address to the cognitive processes of those without access to language. > Culture is both the vector for those symbols and the product of them. This may also overstste the influence of culture, but it does so less than the prior example.
  - theboywho 7y ago
    I did not mention what kind of ice cream we were having. Ours was a keto-compatible sugar-free ice cream
    - soylentcola 7y ago
      Apologies. I thought you mentioned "enjoying it".
    - justforyou 7y ago
      Well played sir, well played.
theboywho 7y ago
On a side note, the use of Furthermore has been correlated with decreasing readability of texts https://elifesciences.org/articles/27725 https://elifesciences.org/articles/27725
- justforyou 7y ago
  So has pedentry, and yet, here we are.

theboywho 7y ago

Symbolism is as subjective as it gets, an act can be interpreted as heroic by some people while others might think it's stupid. Meaningful moments don't exclude symbolic ones, they extend them by including banal moments like having an ice cream with your kid and enjoying it.

justforyou 7y ago
Having an ice cream with your kids and enjoying it is only meaningful due to the cultural symhols and context present in the scenario. Otherwise, you're just hijacking short term reward systems and facilitating the consumption of empty calories to the (health) detriment of all parties involved. There's no inherent meaning in the scenario. Sounds like you are conflating meaning with the felt quality of immediate experience.
- theboywho 7y ago
  I don't agree. It's not necessary meaningful _only_ for symbolic reasons, in fact, you chose to give it meaning that way. You can also simply enjoy the fact your kid is happy and you are having a solitude moment with somebody who you love and who loves you back. In the same way you would enjoy a good tasting Apple, or hot water touching your skin, etc. Unless you are saying that humans are incapable of enjoying life outside of cultural symbols. You seem to be conflating "am I enjoying this moment?" with "does what I'm doing matter?"
  - justforyou 7y ago
    If what you say is true, eating apples would be a universal joy. That's not the case. Food preferences / aversions are a product of culture. The ability to ask both "am I enjoying this moment?" and "does what I'm doing matter?" is a byproduct of symbolic thinking. Culture is both the vector for those symbols and the product of them.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > If what you say is true, eating apples would be a universal joy That doesn't follow from anything the grandparent said. > Food preferences / aversions are a product of culture. They are certainly subjective, and culture has some influence on them, but “product of culture” is far overstating the case. Food preferences exist without culture for purely (though still varying across individuals, because biology does) biological reasons. > The ability to ask both "am I enjoying this moment?" and "does what I'm doing matter?" is a byproduct of symbolic thinking. Insofar as all use of language is, and this the ability to ask any question framed in words is, certainly. It's less clear whether the ability to distinguish momentary enjoyment from significance is, because we don't really have address to the cognitive processes of those without access to language. > Culture is both the vector for those symbols and the product of them. This may also overstste the influence of culture, but it does so less than the prior example.
- theboywho 7y ago
  I did not mention what kind of ice cream we were having. Ours was a keto-compatible sugar-free ice cream
  - soylentcola 7y ago
    Apologies. I thought you mentioned "enjoying it".
  - justforyou 7y ago
    Well played sir, well played.

theboywho 7y ago

On a side note, the use of Furthermore has been correlated with decreasing readability of texts https://elifesciences.org/articles/27725 https://elifesciences.org/articles/27725

justforyou 7y ago
So has pedentry, and yet, here we are.