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Just a reminder, Apple ceded control of its iCloud management in China to a state-controlled company, in addition began storing its encryption keys in China in

by dpau 7y ago

Just a reminder, Apple ceded control of its iCloud management in China to a state-controlled company, in addition began storing its encryption keys in China in order to "comply with local regulations". So whether or not your backups are encrypted is almost a moot point, given that the government can submit a lawful demand for your data at any time.. Apple will store some iCloud encryption keys in China, raising security concerns https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/26/17052802/apple-icloud-encryption-keys-storage-china https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/26/17052802/apple-icloud-enc...

newscracker 7y ago
That’s only for devices where the region is set as China. Why would it be a moot point elsewhere for that reason?
- aiisjustanif 7y ago
  Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
  - tomp 7y ago
    Different places define (in)justice differently.
    - justwalt 7y ago
      But isn’t morality universal?
      - JohnFen 7y ago
        Morality is defined by culture, so there is no "universal" morality as such. However, there are certain specific things that are included in almost all moral frameworks.
        mensetmanusman 7y ago
        ‘There is no absolute’ (except for this statement) always amuses me.
  - cies 7y ago
    Dont know why down voted. Even if someone doesnt care for individuals in other legal zones (sad), the extra injustice Apple is accepting in other legal zones is a clear display of what they are willing to do to you eventually. > Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. So I 100% agree.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Well, it's based on incorrect information, based on the parent's citation....
- dpau 7y ago
  "It's not happening in my country" is a naive argument. You might not care if human rights activists and HK protesters are affected. But Apple's actions in China set a precedent for other countries to follow. If a country demands that Apple "comply with local laws" by providing encryption keys or else risk losing access to that marketplace, Apple will comply, regardless of its effect on user privacy.
  - newscracker 7y ago
    There was no need to misinterpret the comment and write things like '"It's not happening in my country" is a naive argument.' I didn't say that Apple is right to do it in China or elsewhere. I merely pointed out that it's happening in one place and asked why that would make it moot elsewhere. I agree with everything you said except for the phrasing of your first sentence.
scarface74 7y ago
From the linked Rueters article... Apple says the joint venture does not mean that China has any kind of “backdoor” into user data and that Apple alone – not its Chinese partner – will control the encryption keys.
- president 7y ago
  Incorrect. Please see the official Apple Support page [1] that debunks this. It specifically states: "iCloud services and all the data you store with iCloud, including photos, videos, documents, and backups, will be subject to the new terms and conditions of iCloud operated by GCBD." And since all Chinese companies are bound by local laws, you can be assured that your data is readily available for access by the government. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351
  - scarface74 7y ago
    That still doesn’t make the original statement that “encryption keys are given to China” correct. The data that is available in China is not encrypted and would also be available to US authorities. Can you quote the part of the article that states that Apple must give China private keys? Can you find a citation where a third party has found proof that Apple changed the iMessage architecture?
    - president 7y ago
      Apple may still be controlling the encryption keys but this says nothing about sharing the keys if compelled to do so. > Can you quote the part of the article that states that Apple must give China private keys? Can you find a citation where a third party has found proof that Apple changed the iMessage architecture? Apple is smarter than to put some text on their official website saying that the Chinese government has access to all your data. The key here is that their Terms and Conditions state that they operate "...in accordance to local laws". This is a cop-out legalese way of saying "We abide by whatever the Chinese government tells us to do".

by dpau 7y ago

newscracker 7y ago

That’s only for devices where the region is set as China. Why would it be a moot point elsewhere for that reason?

aiisjustanif 7y ago
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
- tomp 7y ago
  Different places define (in)justice differently.
  - justwalt 7y ago
    But isn’t morality universal?
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      Morality is defined by culture, so there is no "universal" morality as such. However, there are certain specific things that are included in almost all moral frameworks.
      - mensetmanusman 7y ago
        ‘There is no absolute’ (except for this statement) always amuses me.
- cies 7y ago
  Dont know why down voted. Even if someone doesnt care for individuals in other legal zones (sad), the extra injustice Apple is accepting in other legal zones is a clear display of what they are willing to do to you eventually. > Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. So I 100% agree.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Well, it's based on incorrect information, based on the parent's citation....
dpau 7y ago
"It's not happening in my country" is a naive argument. You might not care if human rights activists and HK protesters are affected. But Apple's actions in China set a precedent for other countries to follow. If a country demands that Apple "comply with local laws" by providing encryption keys or else risk losing access to that marketplace, Apple will comply, regardless of its effect on user privacy.
- newscracker 7y ago
  There was no need to misinterpret the comment and write things like '"It's not happening in my country" is a naive argument.' I didn't say that Apple is right to do it in China or elsewhere. I merely pointed out that it's happening in one place and asked why that would make it moot elsewhere. I agree with everything you said except for the phrasing of your first sentence.

scarface74 7y ago

From the linked Rueters article... Apple says the joint venture does not mean that China has any kind of “backdoor” into user data and that Apple alone – not its Chinese partner – will control the encryption keys.

president 7y ago
Incorrect. Please see the official Apple Support page [1] that debunks this. It specifically states: "iCloud services and all the data you store with iCloud, including photos, videos, documents, and backups, will be subject to the new terms and conditions of iCloud operated by GCBD." And since all Chinese companies are bound by local laws, you can be assured that your data is readily available for access by the government. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351
- scarface74 7y ago
  That still doesn’t make the original statement that “encryption keys are given to China” correct. The data that is available in China is not encrypted and would also be available to US authorities. Can you quote the part of the article that states that Apple must give China private keys? Can you find a citation where a third party has found proof that Apple changed the iMessage architecture?
  - president 7y ago
    Apple may still be controlling the encryption keys but this says nothing about sharing the keys if compelled to do so. > Can you quote the part of the article that states that Apple must give China private keys? Can you find a citation where a third party has found proof that Apple changed the iMessage architecture? Apple is smarter than to put some text on their official website saying that the Chinese government has access to all your data. The key here is that their Terms and Conditions state that they operate "...in accordance to local laws". This is a cop-out legalese way of saying "We abide by whatever the Chinese government tells us to do".