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My hourly rate after tax is about $50, let's say $60 for easy math. That means that returning a $7 item has to take less than 7 minutes to be worth it, less if

My hourly rate after tax is about $50, let's say $60 for easy math. That means that returning a $7 item has to take less than 7 minutes to be worth it, less if there's other costs besides time. I'll easily spend that much time in the car. In many (most?) cases time=money is a false equivalence because time spent doing something isn't necessarily always time you would be spending working, but the local postal services are only open during hours I would be working, so it's not a false equivalence in my case. Receiving the item you ordered and paid for is easy and free. Returns are not. Why are we even having this conversation? They sent me a box of clay when I ordered a car part. This isn't an ambiguous situation.

j8014 7y ago
For the time you spent typing this comment you could have created a return and had UPS come pick up your package or in my experience, Amazon wouldn't have even required you to return the item and would have just sent you a replacement. Also, I see your rationale and think you are really missing the point. You may have a small hourly rate of $60 and use that as justification but its complete garbage. I do better than that and I work with guys who literally make 10's of millions a year. Taking a preventable loss that only requires a phone call or a chat is foolish, even if it is $7.00.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  If we're going to talk about missing the point: Which is the better way to prevent the loss? 1. Order item from Amazon, discover item is a block of clay, go through the Amazon returns process, reorder item, which may be a block of clay again. 2. Order item from a site that ships me the item I order instead of a block of clay. So again, why are we talking about this? We can argue as much as we want about Amazon's return policies, but the return policy would be irrelevant if they had sent me the item I ordered instead of a block of clay.
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  Unless it's shipped direct by the seller in which case Amazon requires you to pay for shipping even if you have to send it all the way back to China. And they don't refund anything until the seller confirms it's received. My fiancee had to ship a $20.00 dress that wasn't even the right color or anything like the picture back, costing $40.00, before Amazon would even refund her. And worse, the package actually bounced because the seller had folded at some point in the return period, so the package arrived right back on her doorstep. Because Amazon didn't have confirmation from the non-existent seller that the package had arrived at their non-existent company, she had to spend several hours on the phone with CSRs and different people haggling over what was essentially $60.00. So no it isn't easy.
0xffff2 7y ago
>My hourly rate after tax is about $50, let's say $60 for easy math. That means that returning a $7 item has to take less than 7 minutes to be worth it, less if there's other costs besides time. I'll easily spend that much time in the car. This math is infuriating. Do you actually bill for every waking hour of your day? If not, this calculation is nonsense. My hourly rate is similar, but I only work 8 hours per day. I have plenty of time after work to do things like spend 7 minutes returning a cheap item. I have absolutely no desire to work 16 hour days even if I was paid overtime, so it's totally disingenuous to pretend that my time after work is worth the same exact rate as my "hourly" rate at work. (I'm actually salaried so if I did want to work more it would just decrease my hourly rate.)
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  Try reading the paragraph after the one you quoted.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    Maybe it's just a lack of imagination on my part, but I can't imagine how that paragraph is actually true. When I'm in the Bay area, I take returns to the UPS store, which has pretty long hours. When I'm at my second home in the middle of nowhere, Amazon will schedule a pickup for free.
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
      TBH I regret even dignifying the return idea with a response, because the return policy is a stupid distraction to begin with. The real point here is: it's better to order an item and receive that item, than to order an item and receive a block of clay instead. Is this really an argument we need to have? Return policy is irrelevant: if I had received the part I ordered I wouldn't have returned it.
      - 7y ago
irrational 7y ago
But if everyone that receives a counterfeit item returns it, that costs Amazon a lot of money (they have to pay to return it and pay to ship you a new one - all on their dime). By not returning it you are just playing into their hands. Not only did they not have to send you a legitimate item, that they can now sell to someone else, but they didn't have to pay the roundtrip shipping fees (plus someones salary to deal with it when they get it back). And this isn't even touching on being nice to other people. That counterfeiter can keep on sending blocks of clay to other unsuspecting people and you did nothing to help stop them.
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  I left a comment above about how much of a pain in the ass it is to even get Amazon to issue a refund if the item isn't FBA. It took my fiancee over a month of calling them before she got anything. Best bet is to just not buy anything from Amazon.

j8014 7y ago

For the time you spent typing this comment you could have created a return and had UPS come pick up your package or in my experience, Amazon wouldn't have even required you to return the item and would have just sent you a replacement. Also, I see your rationale and think you are really missing the point. You may have a small hourly rate of $60 and use that as justification but its complete garbage. I do better than that and I work with guys who literally make 10's of millions a year. Taking a preventable loss that only requires a phone call or a chat is foolish, even if it is $7.00.

kerkeslager 7y ago
If we're going to talk about missing the point: Which is the better way to prevent the loss? 1. Order item from Amazon, discover item is a block of clay, go through the Amazon returns process, reorder item, which may be a block of clay again. 2. Order item from a site that ships me the item I order instead of a block of clay. So again, why are we talking about this? We can argue as much as we want about Amazon's return policies, but the return policy would be irrelevant if they had sent me the item I ordered instead of a block of clay.
jschwartzi 7y ago
Unless it's shipped direct by the seller in which case Amazon requires you to pay for shipping even if you have to send it all the way back to China. And they don't refund anything until the seller confirms it's received. My fiancee had to ship a $20.00 dress that wasn't even the right color or anything like the picture back, costing $40.00, before Amazon would even refund her. And worse, the package actually bounced because the seller had folded at some point in the return period, so the package arrived right back on her doorstep. Because Amazon didn't have confirmation from the non-existent seller that the package had arrived at their non-existent company, she had to spend several hours on the phone with CSRs and different people haggling over what was essentially $60.00. So no it isn't easy.

0xffff2 7y ago

>My hourly rate after tax is about $50, let's say $60 for easy math. That means that returning a $7 item has to take less than 7 minutes to be worth it, less if there's other costs besides time. I'll easily spend that much time in the car. This math is infuriating. Do you actually bill for every waking hour of your day? If not, this calculation is nonsense. My hourly rate is similar, but I only work 8 hours per day. I have plenty of time after work to do things like spend 7 minutes returning a cheap item. I have absolutely no desire to work 16 hour days even if I was paid overtime, so it's totally disingenuous to pretend that my time after work is worth the same exact rate as my "hourly" rate at work. (I'm actually salaried so if I did want to work more it would just decrease my hourly rate.)

kerkeslager 7y ago
Try reading the paragraph after the one you quoted.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  Maybe it's just a lack of imagination on my part, but I can't imagine how that paragraph is actually true. When I'm in the Bay area, I take returns to the UPS store, which has pretty long hours. When I'm at my second home in the middle of nowhere, Amazon will schedule a pickup for free.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    TBH I regret even dignifying the return idea with a response, because the return policy is a stupid distraction to begin with. The real point here is: it's better to order an item and receive that item, than to order an item and receive a block of clay instead. Is this really an argument we need to have? Return policy is irrelevant: if I had received the part I ordered I wouldn't have returned it.
    - 7y ago

irrational 7y ago

But if everyone that receives a counterfeit item returns it, that costs Amazon a lot of money (they have to pay to return it and pay to ship you a new one - all on their dime). By not returning it you are just playing into their hands. Not only did they not have to send you a legitimate item, that they can now sell to someone else, but they didn't have to pay the roundtrip shipping fees (plus someones salary to deal with it when they get it back). And this isn't even touching on being nice to other people. That counterfeiter can keep on sending blocks of clay to other unsuspecting people and you did nothing to help stop them.

jschwartzi 7y ago
I left a comment above about how much of a pain in the ass it is to even get Amazon to issue a refund if the item isn't FBA. It took my fiancee over a month of calling them before she got anything. Best bet is to just not buy anything from Amazon.