4 ms·

Except that software patents don't even function for the little guy, because even if it was only 'little guys' using software patents, it would cost too much to

by zipdog 16y ago

Except that software patents don't even function for the little guy, because even if it was only 'little guys' using software patents, it would cost too much to check your code against every other existing patent

bugsy 16y ago
Well the system doesn't work at all for the little guy. I was talking patent/copyright in general. As far as software patents, my own opinion is software is obviously copyrightable but not patentable. However, that is not the current viewpoint legally, and this serves the interests of big entities not small ones. I support IP rights. But the current system is seriously broken. Let's say I invent something totally new and innovative (which I have done many times). And I choose not to patent it. So my competitor reverse engineers my product and then patents it and sues me. What now? I can tell you because this is exact thing has happened to me. I get sued and the court case will take 5 years and require calling costly expert witnesses and the jury won't understand a word of the testimony and will flip a coin in the end. Regardless of what their decision is, I am bankrupt and the big company only spent 0.01% of revenue, and in return they got to buy what IP assets I had in bankruptcy court. Wow, that is messed up. So let's rewind. Not getting a patent was a big mistake clearly. So let's say I got a patent. Or not just say, since I have done this one too. Now the next company says "we want to license it". I agree to this and they then hire me to create an implementation of the licensed patent which will work with their product. Then, after this is done and working and they have sold it to clients at a huge profit, they fire me and tell me I have to transfer ownership of the patent to them if I want my job back. When I refuse they start creating legal problems for me that costs tens of thousands of dollars to deal with and take me out of the employment pool for a year, and after all that their company goes bankrupt, their IP is sold to a bigger company in bankruptcy court, and then THAT company (Fortune 100) re-patents the things I have already patented and serves me with a cease and desist. So if I get a patent or don't get a patent, me, the guy inventing awesome new things that benefit humanity, is damned either way because of corporate abuse of the system. The only answer is to stop innovating or to become a corporate parasite that steals things. The problem in all this is not with the concept of patents or copyright but that the way it works in practice is to enable the powerful to squash small innovators who are actually doing useful stuff.
- tbrownaw 16y ago
  > The problem in all this is not with the concept of patents or copyright but that the way it works in practice is to enable the powerful to squash small innovators who are actually doing useful stuff. If an idea can't work in practice then doesn't that make it a bad idea regardless of how pretty it is?
  - Vivtek 16y ago
    But patents did, and do, work in practice - in fields where they're appropriate, and for a couple of centuries. You could argue that their term is too long or that they're badly misapplied, but the alternative to a patent system is a system of trade secrets and reverse engineering, which still favor the big companies at the expense of innovation. The patent system should be adjusted, but not thrown out with the bath water.
    - Qz 16y ago
      They worked in the centuries before the internet. The internet is not going away. The patent system will have to.
      - Vivtek 16y ago
        I'm ... really not sure I buy that. I'll have to think about it.
        steveklabnik 16y ago
        Check out this book by two professors from Cambridge: http://www.amazon.com/Against-Intellectual-Monopoly-Michele-Boldrin/dp/0521879280?tag=duckduckgo-d-20 http://www.amazon.com/Against-Intellectual-Monopoly-Michele-... They've also made it available online, of course. http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/against.htm http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/against.htm
        16y ago

by zipdog 16y ago

bugsy 16y ago

Well the system doesn't work at all for the little guy. I was talking patent/copyright in general. As far as software patents, my own opinion is software is obviously copyrightable but not patentable. However, that is not the current viewpoint legally, and this serves the interests of big entities not small ones. I support IP rights. But the current system is seriously broken. Let's say I invent something totally new and innovative (which I have done many times). And I choose not to patent it. So my competitor reverse engineers my product and then patents it and sues me. What now? I can tell you because this is exact thing has happened to me. I get sued and the court case will take 5 years and require calling costly expert witnesses and the jury won't understand a word of the testimony and will flip a coin in the end. Regardless of what their decision is, I am bankrupt and the big company only spent 0.01% of revenue, and in return they got to buy what IP assets I had in bankruptcy court. Wow, that is messed up. So let's rewind. Not getting a patent was a big mistake clearly. So let's say I got a patent. Or not just say, since I have done this one too. Now the next company says "we want to license it". I agree to this and they then hire me to create an implementation of the licensed patent which will work with their product. Then, after this is done and working and they have sold it to clients at a huge profit, they fire me and tell me I have to transfer ownership of the patent to them if I want my job back. When I refuse they start creating legal problems for me that costs tens of thousands of dollars to deal with and take me out of the employment pool for a year, and after all that their company goes bankrupt, their IP is sold to a bigger company in bankruptcy court, and then THAT company (Fortune 100) re-patents the things I have already patented and serves me with a cease and desist. So if I get a patent or don't get a patent, me, the guy inventing awesome new things that benefit humanity, is damned either way because of corporate abuse of the system. The only answer is to stop innovating or to become a corporate parasite that steals things. The problem in all this is not with the concept of patents or copyright but that the way it works in practice is to enable the powerful to squash small innovators who are actually doing useful stuff.

tbrownaw 16y ago
> The problem in all this is not with the concept of patents or copyright but that the way it works in practice is to enable the powerful to squash small innovators who are actually doing useful stuff. If an idea can't work in practice then doesn't that make it a bad idea regardless of how pretty it is?
- Vivtek 16y ago
  But patents did, and do, work in practice - in fields where they're appropriate, and for a couple of centuries. You could argue that their term is too long or that they're badly misapplied, but the alternative to a patent system is a system of trade secrets and reverse engineering, which still favor the big companies at the expense of innovation. The patent system should be adjusted, but not thrown out with the bath water.
  - Qz 16y ago
    They worked in the centuries before the internet. The internet is not going away. The patent system will have to.
    - Vivtek 16y ago
      I'm ... really not sure I buy that. I'll have to think about it.
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        Check out this book by two professors from Cambridge: http://www.amazon.com/Against-Intellectual-Monopoly-Michele-Boldrin/dp/0521879280?tag=duckduckgo-d-20 http://www.amazon.com/Against-Intellectual-Monopoly-Michele-... They've also made it available online, of course. http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/against.htm http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/against.htm
        16y ago