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That's how any sane person would want to go. It's funny[.] how much time and money and effort goes in to keeping aged people alive in conditions that are terri

That's how any sane person would want to go. It's funny[.] how much time and money and effort goes in to keeping aged people alive in conditions that are terrible. Do what you love, and go out on top. [.]appalling

xvector 7y ago
I cannot wait until we cure aging so we can die on our own terms. The right to death should be as inalienable as the right to life, and nothing short of the heat death should be allowed to make this decision for a sentient being.
- Sevrene 7y ago
  I really want what you have said to be true, but I think there are upper limits we can reach that prevent us from really ever being the arbiters of our own death. That which allows us to become living, must also force us to become nothing, death is the necessity for life, and life is the necessity for death. Skipping death, means skipping life. If every human that ever lived could live forever, would we have been born? And today, would there be enough space, enough resources, to live a comfortable life worth living if forever? I'm not saying that it makes sense to kill people to create more comfortable life here (as some might take it), what I'm saying is there's an upper bounds to letting people live for a long long time without impacting any future life negatively. One person living forever is not really be a big deal. But everyone? At which point we have to ask, if people have that right to death, how does it impact other's right to life, right to shelter, right to clean water, and so on. They impact each other. On a side note, there's a fantastic albeit cheaply made film called The Man From Earth that follows a conversation with someone who claims to have lived since the dawn of man. It's great concept, and I highly recommend a watch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth
  - xvector 7y ago
    > One person living forever is not really be a big deal. But everyone? I think any society that is capable of letting humans live forever — on the scales being discussed — would probably be virtualizing sentiences instead of relying on wasteful fleshy bodies. Living via a human body would be a novelty experience, a vacation, a limiting of capabilities and senses. Essentially, I think your point would be mostly mute by the time we develop true immortality.
    - Sevrene 7y ago
      For sure, you might very well be right. Atleast I would hope so, or else it would probably be immoral, which is really what I was attempting to say.
  - FeepingCreature 7y ago
    > enough space, enough resources Have you looked at the universe lately? There are enough resources out there that every human being currently alive could easily have thousands of civilizations of their own, even making very conservative extrapolations regarding the true energy use of a human mind.
    - Sevrene 7y ago
      When engaging with hypotheticals we tend to want to ascertain whether it's inherently good or bad. For instance, imagine a hypothetical about whether or not it's safe to shoot someone in the chest, we wouldn't say it's safe simply because they could wear a bullet-proof vest, we would have to ask 'what are the odds that they are going to be wearing a bullet-proof vest'. Personally I would assume that in technological terms stopping aging is somewhere below being able to harvest the large amount resources in space safely and efficiently. But I could be wrong.
  - wruza 7y ago
    Why shouldn’t we ask that without eternal life? > Seeing how I change with years, I’d like to live to 200-500-1000 years old. Not because I want to live so bad, but because this is a frightening distance that is a completely wild territory for us to imagine. I’ll watch that movie (if not yet), thanks for the reference. Everything I watched before was pretty “same person tired and/or mindless”-centric, like interview with a vampire, highlander, etc. But it was more entertainment, what humans like to see at cinema, than a really deep analysis of thousands of years old beings. Thinking that you’ll be the same after an amount of time is naive.
    - Sevrene 7y ago
      It's probably the strongest part about the movie — it deals with perspective of immortality from a mortal's perspective in a very realistic way, which is normally thrown by the wayside for more simplier tropes in entertainment. Not that it's wrong to like that, it's just hard to find something that doesn't these days. It comes across more like a well written hard sci-fi story, yet it's mostly just a group of people talking. It left me thinking about immortality from a normal human's perspective for a long time. He explains how it changed him, and where he started from. It's very compelling in my opinion.
- kwonkicker 7y ago
  Every cow would choose live i imagine. İmagine the world with billions of horny immortal cows.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- codetrotter 7y ago
  A couple of thoughts: 1. If everyone lives until the end of the universe, what does that mean for the prospect of having children? I would think it would mean that we would need to stop having children at some point, or else we would overcrowd whatever portion of space that we are occupying at some point. Not being allowed to have children would be sad. I don’t have any children yet, but I want to have children in the future. It is an amazing thing. 2. Neuroplasticity decreases as we grow older. If we live forever, could we end up being stuck forever in our old ways? 3. Evolution could change us in very interesting ways. But only if new humans are born and old ones die. 4. What’s the point of living until the end of the universe anyway? I mean, I agree that life is too short and it would be cool to witness what the world was like in the future. But to live until the end of the universe.. I would not enjoy that. 5. Tbh I’d rather die of natural causes than have to kill myself. As long as my life is not ended too soon I will be content for having been alive and having had all of the good and some of the bad experiences that I have had. (Most of the bad ones I would rather have done without, but some of the bad ones were useful, and we don’t get to choose these things anyway.)
  - maxwin 7y ago
    I don't understand why whenever there is a discussion about aging research, people always bring out the problem of us living forever or till the end of the universe. I mean how about just double or triple our lifespan which is nothing wrong and we still have no idea how to do that. I think maybe the reason why so many people is against it is because of religion.
    - codetrotter 7y ago
      Double or triple would be fine. I am not religious. The person that I am responding to explicitly said he wanted for life to extend to the end of the universe, so that’s why I am responding with my thoughts about exactly that.
      - xvector 7y ago
        If someone wants to live until the heat death, it’s their prerogative.
- avip 7y ago
  There's a tale for that - soldier and Death. Even had a storyteller episode.
- rhizome 7y ago
  Liability insurance is going to go through the roof.
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  Have you noticed that the things that go on forever in media (soap operas, comic franchises) tend to become zombie-like and be consumed mindlessly rather than having any cultural value? In many respect, death is what makes life so interesting.
  - xvector 7y ago
    Though I disagree with your premise I’d gladly take a longer life for a more boring one. Life is already a monotonous routine for most. Dying at our own will would let us live to experience anything we want to experience.
- jakobegger 7y ago
  I'm pretty happy about the fact that everyone has an expiration date built in. I know of very few people in power who don't start abusing their power in some way eventually. Eventual death puts some limits on the amount of bad things one person can do. Many organisations suffer from their geriatric leaders, who have amassed too many followers and too much power over the years. But at some point they die, and there's place for change.
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  It would be interesting to see how everyone reacts to an instant death switch or ability to set your own death date lower or higher than your natural life expectancy without society having control over it. Not only people want control over their lives but once they get it, they will naturally want to control others. I wonder about the ethical complications. If someone is dying from heart attack but you can save him every time he goes through it, will you force that even if the person want to die via heart attack? At what point do you differentiate between suicide or ability to quit it?
Iv 7y ago
Speak for yourself. I want to live for as long as I have even brief moments of lucidity. I don't believe in an afterlife, I intend to savor everything I am receiving. One of my biggest fear is that people fail to appreciate that I value more existence than the absence of suffering and may take a very bad decision for me at one point.
- emmelaich 7y ago
  The idiom is "speak for yourself" (sorry if I offend)
  - Iv 7y ago
    Not at all, thanks! I stumble on these every time I inadvertently translate things directly from my native language. Ill be more careful thanks. Corrected, by the way.
  - richard78459 7y ago
    The definition of "idiom" as per the google search is "a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words (e.g. over the moon, see the light )." The sentence "speak for yourself" has the meaning that is directly deduced from its words. How does it qualify as an idiom ?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- mprev 7y ago
  I’ll assume you haven’t been close to people in the last stages of some of the crueller diseases such as MND/ALS.
  - Iv 7y ago
    See? People would assume tons of things about other people. And one common assumption is that "what I want for me is what others want for them." My opinion on the issue was already strong, but seeing people die after long diseases and people around them talking about "unplugging" them is what made me certain I do not want euthanasia. My grandfather wanted to live even with half a lung functional and painful breathing. Do what you want with your life, but please don't decide for others.

xvector 7y ago

I cannot wait until we cure aging so we can die on our own terms. The right to death should be as inalienable as the right to life, and nothing short of the heat death should be allowed to make this decision for a sentient being.

Sevrene 7y ago
I really want what you have said to be true, but I think there are upper limits we can reach that prevent us from really ever being the arbiters of our own death. That which allows us to become living, must also force us to become nothing, death is the necessity for life, and life is the necessity for death. Skipping death, means skipping life. If every human that ever lived could live forever, would we have been born? And today, would there be enough space, enough resources, to live a comfortable life worth living if forever? I'm not saying that it makes sense to kill people to create more comfortable life here (as some might take it), what I'm saying is there's an upper bounds to letting people live for a long long time without impacting any future life negatively. One person living forever is not really be a big deal. But everyone? At which point we have to ask, if people have that right to death, how does it impact other's right to life, right to shelter, right to clean water, and so on. They impact each other. On a side note, there's a fantastic albeit cheaply made film called The Man From Earth that follows a conversation with someone who claims to have lived since the dawn of man. It's great concept, and I highly recommend a watch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth
- xvector 7y ago
  > One person living forever is not really be a big deal. But everyone? I think any society that is capable of letting humans live forever — on the scales being discussed — would probably be virtualizing sentiences instead of relying on wasteful fleshy bodies. Living via a human body would be a novelty experience, a vacation, a limiting of capabilities and senses. Essentially, I think your point would be mostly mute by the time we develop true immortality.
  - Sevrene 7y ago
    For sure, you might very well be right. Atleast I would hope so, or else it would probably be immoral, which is really what I was attempting to say.
- FeepingCreature 7y ago
  > enough space, enough resources Have you looked at the universe lately? There are enough resources out there that every human being currently alive could easily have thousands of civilizations of their own, even making very conservative extrapolations regarding the true energy use of a human mind.
  - Sevrene 7y ago
    When engaging with hypotheticals we tend to want to ascertain whether it's inherently good or bad. For instance, imagine a hypothetical about whether or not it's safe to shoot someone in the chest, we wouldn't say it's safe simply because they could wear a bullet-proof vest, we would have to ask 'what are the odds that they are going to be wearing a bullet-proof vest'. Personally I would assume that in technological terms stopping aging is somewhere below being able to harvest the large amount resources in space safely and efficiently. But I could be wrong.
- wruza 7y ago
  Why shouldn’t we ask that without eternal life? > Seeing how I change with years, I’d like to live to 200-500-1000 years old. Not because I want to live so bad, but because this is a frightening distance that is a completely wild territory for us to imagine. I’ll watch that movie (if not yet), thanks for the reference. Everything I watched before was pretty “same person tired and/or mindless”-centric, like interview with a vampire, highlander, etc. But it was more entertainment, what humans like to see at cinema, than a really deep analysis of thousands of years old beings. Thinking that you’ll be the same after an amount of time is naive.
  - Sevrene 7y ago
    It's probably the strongest part about the movie — it deals with perspective of immortality from a mortal's perspective in a very realistic way, which is normally thrown by the wayside for more simplier tropes in entertainment. Not that it's wrong to like that, it's just hard to find something that doesn't these days. It comes across more like a well written hard sci-fi story, yet it's mostly just a group of people talking. It left me thinking about immortality from a normal human's perspective for a long time. He explains how it changed him, and where he started from. It's very compelling in my opinion.
kwonkicker 7y ago
Every cow would choose live i imagine. İmagine the world with billions of horny immortal cows.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
codetrotter 7y ago
A couple of thoughts: 1. If everyone lives until the end of the universe, what does that mean for the prospect of having children? I would think it would mean that we would need to stop having children at some point, or else we would overcrowd whatever portion of space that we are occupying at some point. Not being allowed to have children would be sad. I don’t have any children yet, but I want to have children in the future. It is an amazing thing. 2. Neuroplasticity decreases as we grow older. If we live forever, could we end up being stuck forever in our old ways? 3. Evolution could change us in very interesting ways. But only if new humans are born and old ones die. 4. What’s the point of living until the end of the universe anyway? I mean, I agree that life is too short and it would be cool to witness what the world was like in the future. But to live until the end of the universe.. I would not enjoy that. 5. Tbh I’d rather die of natural causes than have to kill myself. As long as my life is not ended too soon I will be content for having been alive and having had all of the good and some of the bad experiences that I have had. (Most of the bad ones I would rather have done without, but some of the bad ones were useful, and we don’t get to choose these things anyway.)
- maxwin 7y ago
  I don't understand why whenever there is a discussion about aging research, people always bring out the problem of us living forever or till the end of the universe. I mean how about just double or triple our lifespan which is nothing wrong and we still have no idea how to do that. I think maybe the reason why so many people is against it is because of religion.
  - codetrotter 7y ago
    Double or triple would be fine. I am not religious. The person that I am responding to explicitly said he wanted for life to extend to the end of the universe, so that’s why I am responding with my thoughts about exactly that.
    - xvector 7y ago
      If someone wants to live until the heat death, it’s their prerogative.
avip 7y ago
There's a tale for that - soldier and Death. Even had a storyteller episode.
rhizome 7y ago
Liability insurance is going to go through the roof.
anigbrowl 7y ago
Have you noticed that the things that go on forever in media (soap operas, comic franchises) tend to become zombie-like and be consumed mindlessly rather than having any cultural value? In many respect, death is what makes life so interesting.
- xvector 7y ago
  Though I disagree with your premise I’d gladly take a longer life for a more boring one. Life is already a monotonous routine for most. Dying at our own will would let us live to experience anything we want to experience.
jakobegger 7y ago
I'm pretty happy about the fact that everyone has an expiration date built in. I know of very few people in power who don't start abusing their power in some way eventually. Eventual death puts some limits on the amount of bad things one person can do. Many organisations suffer from their geriatric leaders, who have amassed too many followers and too much power over the years. But at some point they die, and there's place for change.
thrwaway69 7y ago
It would be interesting to see how everyone reacts to an instant death switch or ability to set your own death date lower or higher than your natural life expectancy without society having control over it. Not only people want control over their lives but once they get it, they will naturally want to control others. I wonder about the ethical complications. If someone is dying from heart attack but you can save him every time he goes through it, will you force that even if the person want to die via heart attack? At what point do you differentiate between suicide or ability to quit it?

Iv 7y ago

Speak for yourself. I want to live for as long as I have even brief moments of lucidity. I don't believe in an afterlife, I intend to savor everything I am receiving. One of my biggest fear is that people fail to appreciate that I value more existence than the absence of suffering and may take a very bad decision for me at one point.

emmelaich 7y ago
The idiom is "speak for yourself" (sorry if I offend)
- Iv 7y ago
  Not at all, thanks! I stumble on these every time I inadvertently translate things directly from my native language. Ill be more careful thanks. Corrected, by the way.
- richard78459 7y ago
  The definition of "idiom" as per the google search is "a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words (e.g. over the moon, see the light )." The sentence "speak for yourself" has the meaning that is directly deduced from its words. How does it qualify as an idiom ?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
mprev 7y ago
I’ll assume you haven’t been close to people in the last stages of some of the crueller diseases such as MND/ALS.
- Iv 7y ago
  See? People would assume tons of things about other people. And one common assumption is that "what I want for me is what others want for them." My opinion on the issue was already strong, but seeing people die after long diseases and people around them talking about "unplugging" them is what made me certain I do not want euthanasia. My grandfather wanted to live even with half a lung functional and painful breathing. Do what you want with your life, but please don't decide for others.