4 ms·

It's funny that the author chose the Hammerklavier Sonata to hold aloft, which isn't that popular even though Beethoven considered it among his best works. Rea

It's funny that the author chose the Hammerklavier Sonata to hold aloft, which isn't that popular even though Beethoven considered it among his best works. Reading the score for the fugue for Hammerklavier Sonata and imagining it in your head, the harmonies (especially the weird trills) are not so jarring as they come out when played on a real piano. Similarly, the syncopated harmonic rhythm in the final movement of the last Sonata #32 (opus 111) doesn't throw you off as much when you are reading the score and have the bar lines to reinforce where the measure boundaries fall. I speculate that if Beethoven had been able to hear those pieces played aloud, he would have made adjustments to them. I hear similar glitches in much of late Beethoven, but those two sections from those two sonatas are the ones that stay with me the most.

grabbalacious 7y ago
Excellent lecture on the Hammerklavier by Andras Schiff which includes an amusing discussion of tempo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5f8yAnGik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5f8yAnGik
- ttctciyf 7y ago
  Schiff is also controversial on the "Moonlight"[1] > I don't know any other piece of music that has such a thick layer of false tradition on it like this one. As well as taking issue with the name - deriving from the poet Ludwig Rellstab which has "stuck like glue" - he notes that the manuscript for the slow first movement, adagio sostenuto (slowly and sustained), is marked alla breve[2] meaning "count two in a bar" so that each beat counts for a pair of the famous triplets[3] - effectively doubling the tempo: > If you would play it in this tempo that is usually played [plays a bar at conventional speed] you can have breakfast and lunch and dinner and the poor pianist is still playing this first ... Not content with this disruption of "Moonlight" convention, he relates that the manuscript writes senza sordino, instructing the player to play the whole first movement "without the dampers". Despite the protestations of his colleagues that "you cannot do it on the modern piano": > I beg to differ. Why can't you do it on the modern piano? Have you tried it? They said "No I haven't tried it. But you cannot do it!" > It's an argument just not good enough. Beethoven is a great great enough composer that you have to take him very seriously. [...] He wanted a very special sound, that the harmonies swim together like in a wash and the overtones are strengthening each other. His solution to the "modern piano" problem is simple: just partially raise the dampers by pressing the pedal down "about a third". All this might sound like a recipe for disaster, but his interpretation sounds wonderful! A lot more follows, and I can also recommend his "Moonlight" masterclass[4] as a demonstration of the cogency of his position on the piece. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW_Dv_GNQAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW_Dv_GNQAo 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alla_breve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alla_breve 3: https://youtu.be/fW_Dv_GNQAo?t=282 https://youtu.be/fW_Dv_GNQAo?t=282 4: https://youtu.be/85KJkpbh_us?t=913 https://youtu.be/85KJkpbh_us?t=913
telesilla 7y ago
It's for the reasons you mention, that Beethoven inadvertently created dissonances and curious harmonic choices that he's considered the original modernist composer. Personally I adore his later works for this reason - somehow, they make sense to my modern ears even though I agree with you if he had his hearing he would have corrected many sections. Also bear in mind that Beethoven was obsessed with the idea of variation: he took a theme and knew how to run with it. So in his later years, I expect he was also open to much more experimentation. One of his great themes is in the opening of the 2nd movement of the symphony #7, which one of my favourites of all my many favourites of this exquisite human being. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsskIs96smU&t=13m04s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsskIs96smU&t=13m04s

grabbalacious 7y ago

Excellent lecture on the Hammerklavier by Andras Schiff which includes an amusing discussion of tempo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5f8yAnGik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5f8yAnGik

ttctciyf 7y ago
Schiff is also controversial on the "Moonlight"[1] > I don't know any other piece of music that has such a thick layer of false tradition on it like this one. As well as taking issue with the name - deriving from the poet Ludwig Rellstab which has "stuck like glue" - he notes that the manuscript for the slow first movement, adagio sostenuto (slowly and sustained), is marked alla breve[2] meaning "count two in a bar" so that each beat counts for a pair of the famous triplets[3] - effectively doubling the tempo: > If you would play it in this tempo that is usually played [plays a bar at conventional speed] you can have breakfast and lunch and dinner and the poor pianist is still playing this first ... Not content with this disruption of "Moonlight" convention, he relates that the manuscript writes senza sordino, instructing the player to play the whole first movement "without the dampers". Despite the protestations of his colleagues that "you cannot do it on the modern piano": > I beg to differ. Why can't you do it on the modern piano? Have you tried it? They said "No I haven't tried it. But you cannot do it!" > It's an argument just not good enough. Beethoven is a great great enough composer that you have to take him very seriously. [...] He wanted a very special sound, that the harmonies swim together like in a wash and the overtones are strengthening each other. His solution to the "modern piano" problem is simple: just partially raise the dampers by pressing the pedal down "about a third". All this might sound like a recipe for disaster, but his interpretation sounds wonderful! A lot more follows, and I can also recommend his "Moonlight" masterclass[4] as a demonstration of the cogency of his position on the piece. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW_Dv_GNQAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW_Dv_GNQAo 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alla_breve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alla_breve 3: https://youtu.be/fW_Dv_GNQAo?t=282 https://youtu.be/fW_Dv_GNQAo?t=282 4: https://youtu.be/85KJkpbh_us?t=913 https://youtu.be/85KJkpbh_us?t=913

telesilla 7y ago

It's for the reasons you mention, that Beethoven inadvertently created dissonances and curious harmonic choices that he's considered the original modernist composer. Personally I adore his later works for this reason - somehow, they make sense to my modern ears even though I agree with you if he had his hearing he would have corrected many sections. Also bear in mind that Beethoven was obsessed with the idea of variation: he took a theme and knew how to run with it. So in his later years, I expect he was also open to much more experimentation. One of his great themes is in the opening of the 2nd movement of the symphony #7, which one of my favourites of all my many favourites of this exquisite human being. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsskIs96smU&t=13m04s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsskIs96smU&t=13m04s