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That's actually argument _for_ UBI -- knowledge at managing money comes from having any money to manage. (Unless you teach that in school, but that would be way

That's actually argument _for_ UBI -- knowledge at managing money comes from having any money to manage. (Unless you teach that in school, but that would be way too sensible)

umvi 7y ago
There is a certain amount of knowledge that comes from the experience of managing money, yes. But also, the financial world has a lot of jargon and pitfalls that are aren't exactly easy to learn, especially as a high school dropout with no math background and no educated parents to turn to for help. The _truth_ about UBI is that a lot of poor people's UBI is going to get completely eaten by predatory opportunists and then they will be in the same situation they are in. What they lack is mentorship. Without mentorship from people good at managing money, UBI (I predict) will not help the poor as much as you think - it will mainly help the educated middle class. For example, there is a (poor, uneducated) lady in my church receiving the equivalent of UBI from the state of Maryland. However, despite "having money to manage" she has not spontaneously gained knowledge in managing money. I sat down with her once to help see if there was something more she could be doing to stop being in crisis mode all the time, and it was insane how many "bills" she was paying that weren't even real bills. There's this dark network of predators out there that send out mail with a red stamp that says "Payment Due by 1/22/2020". It looks like a bill. But if you read closely, it's actually not a bill but some home security service they are trying to trick you into buying. An educated person tears it up and throws it away. An uneducated person thinks it's a bill to pay and loses a fraction of their UBI. Another fraction of her UBI was going toward utilities she wasn't even using. One bill was nearly $70 from Comcast for cable TV, but I pointed out that she didn't even own a TV. We freed up nearly $200/month that day just by cancelling services she wasn't using and throwing away fake bills. > Unless you teach that in school, but that would be way too sensible Schools didn't used to have to teach you every basic skill needed to thrive in society. You could pick those up on your own if you are motivated, or through your parents.
- UnFleshedOne 7y ago
  But I expect a lot will not, and if a certain percentage of people in your network have a not horrible money management skill, chances you can find somebody to help. Or even just hear casual mentions of some of the things you did for that lady. Eventually most of the people will be ok. That lady was lucky she knew you. But what should have happened is her sister, or friend, or neighbor, or grocery store cashier, should have been able to smack some sense into her long ago. Some protections will be necessary for sure. I think there are some anti-gouging laws on the books already, and that fake bill should be classified as fraud if it is not already. Bigger potential money stream for organised crime will motivate enforcement, I'm sure. Schools teach about traffic lights and using microsoft word. Somewhere between those some budgeting and compound interest lessons would fit right in. Society change and will keep changing, schools might as well keep up.
- _nalply 7y ago
  I upvoted this post and downvoted the post two levels up because I think that we need UBI just because work as the vehicle to share economy's gains to people is slowly breaking down. What's the alternative? It is a shame that scammers can exploit people that easily. But I think that just giving money to people wouldn't solve all problems anyway. Work, for example, is more than just a means of income. It is also a source of recognition, and missing recognition would make many people unhappy. But again: what's the alternative to UBI?

That's actually argument _for_ UBI -- knowledge at managing money comes from having any money to manage. (Unless you teach that in school, but that would be way too sensible)

umvi 7y ago

There is a certain amount of knowledge that comes from the experience of managing money, yes. But also, the financial world has a lot of jargon and pitfalls that are aren't exactly easy to learn, especially as a high school dropout with no math background and no educated parents to turn to for help. The _truth_ about UBI is that a lot of poor people's UBI is going to get completely eaten by predatory opportunists and then they will be in the same situation they are in. What they lack is mentorship. Without mentorship from people good at managing money, UBI (I predict) will not help the poor as much as you think - it will mainly help the educated middle class. For example, there is a (poor, uneducated) lady in my church receiving the equivalent of UBI from the state of Maryland. However, despite "having money to manage" she has not spontaneously gained knowledge in managing money. I sat down with her once to help see if there was something more she could be doing to stop being in crisis mode all the time, and it was insane how many "bills" she was paying that weren't even real bills. There's this dark network of predators out there that send out mail with a red stamp that says "Payment Due by 1/22/2020". It looks like a bill. But if you read closely, it's actually not a bill but some home security service they are trying to trick you into buying. An educated person tears it up and throws it away. An uneducated person thinks it's a bill to pay and loses a fraction of their UBI. Another fraction of her UBI was going toward utilities she wasn't even using. One bill was nearly $70 from Comcast for cable TV, but I pointed out that she didn't even own a TV. We freed up nearly $200/month that day just by cancelling services she wasn't using and throwing away fake bills. > Unless you teach that in school, but that would be way too sensible Schools didn't used to have to teach you every basic skill needed to thrive in society. You could pick those up on your own if you are motivated, or through your parents.

UnFleshedOne 7y ago
But I expect a lot will not, and if a certain percentage of people in your network have a not horrible money management skill, chances you can find somebody to help. Or even just hear casual mentions of some of the things you did for that lady. Eventually most of the people will be ok. That lady was lucky she knew you. But what should have happened is her sister, or friend, or neighbor, or grocery store cashier, should have been able to smack some sense into her long ago. Some protections will be necessary for sure. I think there are some anti-gouging laws on the books already, and that fake bill should be classified as fraud if it is not already. Bigger potential money stream for organised crime will motivate enforcement, I'm sure. Schools teach about traffic lights and using microsoft word. Somewhere between those some budgeting and compound interest lessons would fit right in. Society change and will keep changing, schools might as well keep up.
_nalply 7y ago
I upvoted this post and downvoted the post two levels up because I think that we need UBI just because work as the vehicle to share economy's gains to people is slowly breaking down. What's the alternative? It is a shame that scammers can exploit people that easily. But I think that just giving money to people wouldn't solve all problems anyway. Work, for example, is more than just a means of income. It is also a source of recognition, and missing recognition would make many people unhappy. But again: what's the alternative to UBI?