4 ms·

Oracle pays women less and got caught: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/18/oracle-women-workers-lawsuit-salaries-pay https://www.theguardian.com/

Oracle pays women less and got caught: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/18/oracle-women-workers-lawsuit-salaries-pay https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/18/oracle-wo... Microsoft also got “caught”— CEO Satya Nadella made a poorly worded comment that resulted in many women getting raises (so clearly at least some had hard evidence they were getting underpaid): https://www.forbes.com/sites/amitchowdhry/2014/10/10/microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-apologizes-for-comments-on-womens-pay/#6a59ebe16d2b https://www.forbes.com/sites/amitchowdhry/2014/10/10/microso... I know of at least 4 cases were female colleagues of mine were getting held to the bottom of the band (or in one case the band was lowered).

neilv 7y ago
Nadella's 2014 comment is horrifying to read just now, considering the long-time backstabbing reputation of the company (at the time; currently improving, at least in PR). Quoting: > It's not about asking for the raise, but knowing and having faith that the system will actually give you the right raises as you go along... And that, I think might be one of the additional superpowers that quite frankly women who don't ask for a raise have. Because that's good karma. It'll come back because somebody's going to know 'that's the kind of person that I want to trust. That's the kind of person I want to really give more responsibility to.' And in the long term efficiency, things catch up. And I wonder… And I’m not saying that’s the only approach. > I wonder whether taking the long-term helps solve for what might be perceived as this uncomfortable thing of ‘hey, am I getting paid right? Am I getting rewarded right?’ Because reality is your best work is not followed with your best rewards. Your best work then has impact, people recognize it and then you get the rewards so you have to somehow think that through, I think. Had I seen this in 2014, not knowing Nadella, I'm sure it would've sounded to me like a horribly disingenuous attempt by an executive to suppress wages. Also possibly tone-deaf, and not only due to the venue and the context of ongoing exploitation/marginalization of women, but also due to non-gender-specific abusive industry behaviors, including one exposed shortly before then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  What he describes is basically how things work in big corporations in IT, sans gender talk. You don't progress fast, but build momentum relatively slowly, this gets recognized and as you build your capital you ask for raises and promotions. Or raises are decided completely independently on a whim of manager high enough, like in my place. Not ideal, but big corporations are anything but ideal in many aspects.
scruple 7y ago
My wife was taken aside by her HR rep (she's a senior SWE at a company that is not a FAANG but is very well known in our industry and routinely featured in articles that make the HN front page) and told, more or less, "We did some analysis on employee pay rates and found that you were being underpaid, we've adjusted your pay rate accordingly." It wasn't _only_ females, a few of her male colleagues went through the same process. Of course, what isn't known is experience levels, years of experience, title, and the amount they were all being underpaid. My wife isn't a pushover and when she accepted this position ~4 years ago she was compensated around market average, yet the pay bump they gave her was significant. It's left us with a lot of questions.

neilv 7y ago

Nadella's 2014 comment is horrifying to read just now, considering the long-time backstabbing reputation of the company (at the time; currently improving, at least in PR). Quoting: > It's not about asking for the raise, but knowing and having faith that the system will actually give you the right raises as you go along... And that, I think might be one of the additional superpowers that quite frankly women who don't ask for a raise have. Because that's good karma. It'll come back because somebody's going to know 'that's the kind of person that I want to trust. That's the kind of person I want to really give more responsibility to.' And in the long term efficiency, things catch up. And I wonder… And I’m not saying that’s the only approach. > I wonder whether taking the long-term helps solve for what might be perceived as this uncomfortable thing of ‘hey, am I getting paid right? Am I getting rewarded right?’ Because reality is your best work is not followed with your best rewards. Your best work then has impact, people recognize it and then you get the rewards so you have to somehow think that through, I think. Had I seen this in 2014, not knowing Nadella, I'm sure it would've sounded to me like a horribly disingenuous attempt by an executive to suppress wages. Also possibly tone-deaf, and not only due to the venue and the context of ongoing exploitation/marginalization of women, but also due to non-gender-specific abusive industry behaviors, including one exposed shortly before then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

saiya-jin 7y ago
What he describes is basically how things work in big corporations in IT, sans gender talk. You don't progress fast, but build momentum relatively slowly, this gets recognized and as you build your capital you ask for raises and promotions. Or raises are decided completely independently on a whim of manager high enough, like in my place. Not ideal, but big corporations are anything but ideal in many aspects.

scruple 7y ago

My wife was taken aside by her HR rep (she's a senior SWE at a company that is not a FAANG but is very well known in our industry and routinely featured in articles that make the HN front page) and told, more or less, "We did some analysis on employee pay rates and found that you were being underpaid, we've adjusted your pay rate accordingly." It wasn't _only_ females, a few of her male colleagues went through the same process. Of course, what isn't known is experience levels, years of experience, title, and the amount they were all being underpaid. My wife isn't a pushover and when she accepted this position ~4 years ago she was compensated around market average, yet the pay bump they gave her was significant. It's left us with a lot of questions.