3 ms·

No, these are double or more than pre-tax London salaries. I'm not sure about continetal Europe, but the convention in the UK is to report pre-tax salaries. He

by foldr 7y ago

No, these are double or more than pre-tax London salaries. I'm not sure about continetal Europe, but the convention in the UK is to report pre-tax salaries. Healthcare is complicated. Most cushy tech jobs in the US come with the premiums included. But in the US there is always a significant risk of large and unpredictable medical expenses. (Especially when you consider that there's no guarantee that you'll keep your job!) That one is difficult to put figures on. I don't personally care about daycare and college savings as I'm not planning to have kids.

fastbeef 7y ago
> I don't personally care about daycare and college savings as I'm not planning to have kids Right. But you ARE going to get old and sick and someone else’s children are going to take care of you. You probably want them educated and doing stupid mistakes because they’re overworked.
- foldr 7y ago
  More people to to college in the US than in the UK.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    While that was the case, it doesn't seem to be anymore (for instance see the age cohorts here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_... ). Two year non-degree courses also seem to be much more common in the US than elsewhere, which skews things a bit.
    - foldr 7y ago
      Fair enough. It's not a big gap.
esotericn 7y ago
Employer's NI is 13.8%, so multiply a normal 'pre-tax' salary by 1.16. Then again, the Americans are presumably getting health insurance so it'd be a wash. I have a sense that Americans are just better at negotiating (taught to do it, and actually do it) than Brits. Anecdotally I know a whole bunch of people who could be earning a lot more (not only in software), but they have this sort of meekness that leads them to believe whatever number the other party says is what they have to take. Individually that may not make up all of the difference, but collectively it probably does (e.g. the market depressing effect if most people don't bother).
- foldr 7y ago
  >so multiply a normal 'pre-tax' salary by 1.16 I don't follow the logic of this. The amount of your quoted salary that you get to keep (for a typical SE salary) is going to be somewhat higher in the US than in the UK. (Not massively higher - Americans often inaccurately apply the stereotype of high tax Europe to the UK.) Whether the deductions are for employee or employer taxes is moot from a financial point of view.
  - esotericn 7y ago
    If someone says "I earn 50K" in the UK then they mean that's their salary after employer NI but before income tax and employee NI. The cost to the employer (in straight cash terms, not including related stuff like a desk, computer, etc etc) is more than that figure. It's not fully pre-tax, but we call it pre-tax, just pointing that out.
    - foldr 7y ago
      Ok, but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with US/UK pay disparities. US pay also doesn't include all the taxes and other expenses being paid by the employer in relation the the employee. E.g., the employer's portion of the health insurance premiums won't be included.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  Honestly it hurts to say but the prevalence of tall-poppy syndrome, deference to your boss, etc. is horrific for salaries in at least Ireland, and maybe Europe as a whole. When I left my last job we found out I was paid quite a bit better than my colleagues (who were just as good) and all I had done was... push a tiny bit. They hadn't. Other things like "always be interviewing even if you like your job" and stuff like that get the odd look of disapproval, even though it's pretty obvious you will do your best negotiations when you have the strongest position, which means already having a job you like.
AdamGibbins 7y ago
> but the convention in the UK is to report pre-tax salaries. This isn't 100% true, you never see the employers side of national insurance for example.
- foldr 7y ago
  But do you see something equivalent withheld from your paycheck in the US? Not that I noticed, when I was working there.
  - AdamGibbins 7y ago
    I don't know, I've never worked in the US. OP seems to imply you do?
    - foldr 7y ago
      I have before. I'm confused why people are bringing up employer NI if there isn't some kind of similar deduction that comes directly out of employee paychecks in the US. Otherwise, who cares that your employer pays some tax for everyone that they employ?

by foldr 7y ago

fastbeef 7y ago

> I don't personally care about daycare and college savings as I'm not planning to have kids Right. But you ARE going to get old and sick and someone else’s children are going to take care of you. You probably want them educated and doing stupid mistakes because they’re overworked.

foldr 7y ago
More people to to college in the US than in the UK.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- rsynnott 7y ago
  While that was the case, it doesn't seem to be anymore (for instance see the age cohorts here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_... ). Two year non-degree courses also seem to be much more common in the US than elsewhere, which skews things a bit.
  - foldr 7y ago
    Fair enough. It's not a big gap.

esotericn 7y ago

Employer's NI is 13.8%, so multiply a normal 'pre-tax' salary by 1.16. Then again, the Americans are presumably getting health insurance so it'd be a wash. I have a sense that Americans are just better at negotiating (taught to do it, and actually do it) than Brits. Anecdotally I know a whole bunch of people who could be earning a lot more (not only in software), but they have this sort of meekness that leads them to believe whatever number the other party says is what they have to take. Individually that may not make up all of the difference, but collectively it probably does (e.g. the market depressing effect if most people don't bother).

foldr 7y ago
>so multiply a normal 'pre-tax' salary by 1.16 I don't follow the logic of this. The amount of your quoted salary that you get to keep (for a typical SE salary) is going to be somewhat higher in the US than in the UK. (Not massively higher - Americans often inaccurately apply the stereotype of high tax Europe to the UK.) Whether the deductions are for employee or employer taxes is moot from a financial point of view.
- esotericn 7y ago
  If someone says "I earn 50K" in the UK then they mean that's their salary after employer NI but before income tax and employee NI. The cost to the employer (in straight cash terms, not including related stuff like a desk, computer, etc etc) is more than that figure. It's not fully pre-tax, but we call it pre-tax, just pointing that out.
  - foldr 7y ago
    Ok, but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with US/UK pay disparities. US pay also doesn't include all the taxes and other expenses being paid by the employer in relation the the employee. E.g., the employer's portion of the health insurance premiums won't be included.
CalRobert 7y ago
Honestly it hurts to say but the prevalence of tall-poppy syndrome, deference to your boss, etc. is horrific for salaries in at least Ireland, and maybe Europe as a whole. When I left my last job we found out I was paid quite a bit better than my colleagues (who were just as good) and all I had done was... push a tiny bit. They hadn't. Other things like "always be interviewing even if you like your job" and stuff like that get the odd look of disapproval, even though it's pretty obvious you will do your best negotiations when you have the strongest position, which means already having a job you like.

AdamGibbins 7y ago

> but the convention in the UK is to report pre-tax salaries. This isn't 100% true, you never see the employers side of national insurance for example.

foldr 7y ago
But do you see something equivalent withheld from your paycheck in the US? Not that I noticed, when I was working there.
- AdamGibbins 7y ago
  I don't know, I've never worked in the US. OP seems to imply you do?
  - foldr 7y ago
    I have before. I'm confused why people are bringing up employer NI if there isn't some kind of similar deduction that comes directly out of employee paychecks in the US. Otherwise, who cares that your employer pays some tax for everyone that they employ?