4 ms·

This is terrific work, but the early claim that, “As far as I know, this is the largest data on compensation and level details of tech workers.“ makes me wonder

This is terrific work, but the early claim that, “As far as I know, this is the largest data on compensation and level details of tech workers.“ makes me wonder if he isn’t aware of the other data sets, or wrote imprecisely. There are extremely detailed and very large sets of this sort of data available if you are willing to spend large amounts of money and sign big nondisclosure agreements. All the biggest companies share into these sets and know what everyone is paying everyone else. So the companies don’t have an advantage just because they negotiate with many people themselves. They know because they get industry reports about what everyone else is doing. This doesn’t change anything about his points. If anything, it makes them stronger. But better data absolutely is out there.

staplers 7y ago
The author is a she, just fyi
atq2119 7y ago
This seems like a great argument in favour of unionizing in order to level the playing field a bit. If companies cooperate in this way even when they might otherwise be competitors, then so should workers.
- Cthulhu_ 7y ago
  I don't think it would work to be honest; going by Dutch unions, they will make it so that everyone working in industry X will get the same compensation (or, compensation tiers based on e.g. experience and position). This won't work in the US because the same job will pay $200K in SF versus $50K elsewhere. The people in SF won't want to give up their cushy wage and conditions so that someone in a less fortunate area can earn more.
  - gmueckl 7y ago
    This is why German unions often negotiate for different geographic areas independently. This way, different costs of living are factored in.
    - cpach 7y ago
      It’s the same in my country (Sweden) AFAIK.
    - pmiller2 7y ago
      Interesting. Is that only to do with matters of compensation, or do other factors come into play?
      - gmueckl 7y ago
        They could negotiate completely independent contract for each region as far as I know, but in practice, the differences revolve mostly around pay structure. I'm not aware of any other significant regional differences.
    - lowdose 7y ago
      But the Netherlands is actually one big city so this wouldn't make much sense. The Netherland is as economically independent from Germany as Hong Kong is from China.
      - gmueckl 7y ago
        My point was merely that there are models for solutions for the problems the parent post saw for the USA. I did not want to claim that this works for the Netherlands, too.
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    I don't think it would work to be honest; going by Dutch unions, they will make it so that everyone working in industry X will get the same compensation People keep saying this as if it’s an inherent property of unions but it simply isn’t true and the counter example is Hollywood where everyone from the hottest star to the lowliest extra are all in the union.
    - pc86 7y ago
      Acting/SAG is a pretty disingenuous example as everything is incredibly individualistic in that industry. Not to mention the fact that SAG doesn't negotiate individual contracts, just cast minimums. Not a single technical/profession union outside of Hollywood operates that way. Some will negotiate geographically but that's it.
      - dorfsmay 7y ago
        If hollywood can be special because their jobs and compensations are different, why couldn't the tech industry be different?
        pc86 7y ago
        I'm not saying it couldn't, I'm saying when there are 4,999 examples of it happening Way A and 1 example of it happening Way B, presenting Way B as the obvious example of how to do it is pretty disingenuous.
  - pmiller2 7y ago
    Eh, it's not that hard to add a cost of living multiplier so that something that pays $50K in BFE Nowhere can also pay $200k in SF.
lcabral 7y ago
I live in Norway and a member of a union for engineering (broad branches thought) and this is also a kind of statistical analysis they do every year on their 81500 members. They take in consideration the experience years and different fields, as well as public vs private sector. They have improved quite a bit in the last few years on the metrics they present but I don't think geographic metrics have been shown as there are only a couple of big cities where population is concentrated.

staplers 7y ago

The author is a she, just fyi

atq2119 7y ago

This seems like a great argument in favour of unionizing in order to level the playing field a bit. If companies cooperate in this way even when they might otherwise be competitors, then so should workers.

Cthulhu_ 7y ago
I don't think it would work to be honest; going by Dutch unions, they will make it so that everyone working in industry X will get the same compensation (or, compensation tiers based on e.g. experience and position). This won't work in the US because the same job will pay $200K in SF versus $50K elsewhere. The people in SF won't want to give up their cushy wage and conditions so that someone in a less fortunate area can earn more.
- gmueckl 7y ago
  This is why German unions often negotiate for different geographic areas independently. This way, different costs of living are factored in.
  - cpach 7y ago
    It’s the same in my country (Sweden) AFAIK.
  - pmiller2 7y ago
    Interesting. Is that only to do with matters of compensation, or do other factors come into play?
    - gmueckl 7y ago
      They could negotiate completely independent contract for each region as far as I know, but in practice, the differences revolve mostly around pay structure. I'm not aware of any other significant regional differences.
  - lowdose 7y ago
    But the Netherlands is actually one big city so this wouldn't make much sense. The Netherland is as economically independent from Germany as Hong Kong is from China.
    - gmueckl 7y ago
      My point was merely that there are models for solutions for the problems the parent post saw for the USA. I did not want to claim that this works for the Netherlands, too.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  I don't think it would work to be honest; going by Dutch unions, they will make it so that everyone working in industry X will get the same compensation People keep saying this as if it’s an inherent property of unions but it simply isn’t true and the counter example is Hollywood where everyone from the hottest star to the lowliest extra are all in the union.
  - pc86 7y ago
    Acting/SAG is a pretty disingenuous example as everything is incredibly individualistic in that industry. Not to mention the fact that SAG doesn't negotiate individual contracts, just cast minimums. Not a single technical/profession union outside of Hollywood operates that way. Some will negotiate geographically but that's it.
    - dorfsmay 7y ago
      If hollywood can be special because their jobs and compensations are different, why couldn't the tech industry be different?
      - pc86 7y ago
        I'm not saying it couldn't, I'm saying when there are 4,999 examples of it happening Way A and 1 example of it happening Way B, presenting Way B as the obvious example of how to do it is pretty disingenuous.
- pmiller2 7y ago
  Eh, it's not that hard to add a cost of living multiplier so that something that pays $50K in BFE Nowhere can also pay $200k in SF.

lcabral 7y ago

I live in Norway and a member of a union for engineering (broad branches thought) and this is also a kind of statistical analysis they do every year on their 81500 members. They take in consideration the experience years and different fields, as well as public vs private sector. They have improved quite a bit in the last few years on the metrics they present but I don't think geographic metrics have been shown as there are only a couple of big cities where population is concentrated.