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This seems a bit off. With 20 years experience I was getting 120k in San Francisco in 2015. This is for an expert C, C++, ObjC/Swift, Python, Java, LUA engineer

This seems a bit off. With 20 years experience I was getting 120k in San Francisco in 2015. This is for an expert C, C++, ObjC/Swift, Python, Java, LUA engineer who has worked the whole stack and shipped many products of all sizes. Eventually I left the city entirely because it was too damn expensive.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
That’s low in 2019 numbers. Keep in mind the FANG company compensation is better than the industry-wide numbers typically.
- m0zg 7y ago
  For a C++ "expert" that's low in '10 and '00 numbers as well.
ztratar 7y ago
You were getting massively underpaid.
Pfhreak 7y ago
In the same year, with two years experience (post internships), in Seattle, my total comp was significantly higher than this. You were absolutely being underpaid.
eldavido 7y ago
You don't seem to be too bothered by this. I've had wild swings in pay myself, worked places big and small. Maybe saying this to others in the thread: there's more to life than how much money you make. I agree SF is getting way too expensive, it seems you either work FAANG or get out. At least, that's how it feels, and I think the city is worse for it, with every passing day. I think it's also important to think about where you were working. See my other comments in this discussion; I don't think it's accurate to say "underpaid", "underused" maybe, but not "underpaid".
- kstenerud 7y ago
  Actually it does bother me, because it means that employers have been lying to me when they said that this is normal. And if they lie about that, it means that they are deceptive and untrustworthy. I'm autistic, so this is an area I have trouble in.
  - Tade0 7y ago
    The incentive is huge to not tell you the whole truth, like "this salary is normal but for this company". To give an example: I spent almost two years making a hilarious $13k annually in Poland(where I'm from) while my employer was charging our US customers standard rates, so multiples of that. When I switched jobs in 2015, my salary went up 2.5x. This whole time I was making 40% of the market rate and nobody bothered to tell me.
    - sethammons 7y ago
      > this salary is normal but for this company My HR guy was open about it. Our company and others were in a data sharing collective. You pick a title, a region, and experience level and it shows stats on thousands of other companies. By the time you drill down, maybe a dozen companies match. He showed me that for a senior software developer in Orange County at the time (around 5 years ago?), the data showed that I was being paid above median at $120k/yr (pretty sure that was my rate at the time). The problem? I had an offer on hand for $150k. The HR guy was locked with, "yeah, but the data here shows you are already paid above what we should." The CEO helped us meet in the middle. Good choice for me to stay. Base salary is now way higher than what we were talking about then, plus the company went public and I got a start up lotto ticket. Anyway, yes. The company has a limited vision too of what your salary should be, even when they have more data available to them. The only way to see your market rate is to check the market.
  - cloverich 7y ago
    All of the employee's I have met who negotiate high salaries do so the same way: They interview regularly (3-4 times a year). They learn what's out there and what they can get. If you start to get offers it becomes natural and easy to both negotiate or leave if you aren't being paid the market rate. I recently started doing this and it was easier than I thought. You don't have to bring all the formalities -- you can simply start emailing people and simply say "Hey, I'm a developer, I'm trying to get a better idea of what's out there. Would you be interested in meeting for coffee so I could learn about your company?" (or something similar).
crazy5sheep 7y ago
Either you didn't switch jobs often, or didn't want to spend time on interview preparing sites like leetcode.
freyir 7y ago
You were being underpaid for SF. That's why surveys like these are useful. There are many companies who will happily underpay unsuspecting employees for years or decades on end. You probably made the right choice though. Even at compensation levels posted in this survey, there's no value for your money here.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

That’s low in 2019 numbers. Keep in mind the FANG company compensation is better than the industry-wide numbers typically.

m0zg 7y ago
For a C++ "expert" that's low in '10 and '00 numbers as well.

ztratar 7y ago

You were getting massively underpaid.

Pfhreak 7y ago

In the same year, with two years experience (post internships), in Seattle, my total comp was significantly higher than this. You were absolutely being underpaid.

eldavido 7y ago

You don't seem to be too bothered by this. I've had wild swings in pay myself, worked places big and small. Maybe saying this to others in the thread: there's more to life than how much money you make. I agree SF is getting way too expensive, it seems you either work FAANG or get out. At least, that's how it feels, and I think the city is worse for it, with every passing day. I think it's also important to think about where you were working. See my other comments in this discussion; I don't think it's accurate to say "underpaid", "underused" maybe, but not "underpaid".

kstenerud 7y ago
Actually it does bother me, because it means that employers have been lying to me when they said that this is normal. And if they lie about that, it means that they are deceptive and untrustworthy. I'm autistic, so this is an area I have trouble in.
- Tade0 7y ago
  The incentive is huge to not tell you the whole truth, like "this salary is normal but for this company". To give an example: I spent almost two years making a hilarious $13k annually in Poland(where I'm from) while my employer was charging our US customers standard rates, so multiples of that. When I switched jobs in 2015, my salary went up 2.5x. This whole time I was making 40% of the market rate and nobody bothered to tell me.
  - sethammons 7y ago
    > this salary is normal but for this company My HR guy was open about it. Our company and others were in a data sharing collective. You pick a title, a region, and experience level and it shows stats on thousands of other companies. By the time you drill down, maybe a dozen companies match. He showed me that for a senior software developer in Orange County at the time (around 5 years ago?), the data showed that I was being paid above median at $120k/yr (pretty sure that was my rate at the time). The problem? I had an offer on hand for $150k. The HR guy was locked with, "yeah, but the data here shows you are already paid above what we should." The CEO helped us meet in the middle. Good choice for me to stay. Base salary is now way higher than what we were talking about then, plus the company went public and I got a start up lotto ticket. Anyway, yes. The company has a limited vision too of what your salary should be, even when they have more data available to them. The only way to see your market rate is to check the market.
- cloverich 7y ago
  All of the employee's I have met who negotiate high salaries do so the same way: They interview regularly (3-4 times a year). They learn what's out there and what they can get. If you start to get offers it becomes natural and easy to both negotiate or leave if you aren't being paid the market rate. I recently started doing this and it was easier than I thought. You don't have to bring all the formalities -- you can simply start emailing people and simply say "Hey, I'm a developer, I'm trying to get a better idea of what's out there. Would you be interested in meeting for coffee so I could learn about your company?" (or something similar).

crazy5sheep 7y ago

Either you didn't switch jobs often, or didn't want to spend time on interview preparing sites like leetcode.

freyir 7y ago

You were being underpaid for SF. That's why surveys like these are useful. There are many companies who will happily underpay unsuspecting employees for years or decades on end. You probably made the right choice though. Even at compensation levels posted in this survey, there's no value for your money here.