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> the syntax of python will remain a great inspiration for readability if they don't make the same mistakes... it always amazes me to see people from all levels

> the syntax of python will remain a great inspiration for readability if they don't make the same mistakes... it always amazes me to see people from all levels read python the first time and get it. I think python had already crossed that bridge, at least for webapps and ml (albeit not at the syntax level). Consider what you must bring in for a real webapps deployment: virtualenv, uwsgi, celery, nginx, at a minimum, probably rabbitmq for many apps. Deployment is a nightmare. For ml, you'll need to pick your library, version it correctly (some ml models are even firmly stuck in python 2.7), probably manage it all in conda if you are testing different models, since your source is bound to different tensorflow/pytorch/python/cuda version dependencies, and deployment is a nightmare. Maybe I'm missing some python best practices due to the places I've been (django/angular shops that don't write tests) but ultimately I think this is Not very beginner-friendly at all.

luhn 7y ago
I think the parent was speaking specifically about the language, not the ecosystem. More "if I open up this Python file, can I understand what it's doing," not "can I execute this application easily." I think Python is excellent at the former—Syntax is simple and explicit, "clever" code is discourages by both the language and the community. Packaging is a known pain-point in Python and does make the language less approachable. But beyond that I don't understand your criticisms. uwsgi, celery, nginx, RabbitMQ are all useful tools that are oftentimes used in web applications. What language are you using that magics away the need for tools like these? All these same tools or their equivalent still exist in the Rails ecosystem. I don't have much hands on experience with ML, so I guess I can't comment on that. Is there something about Python that exacerbates the issues you've laid out?
- dnautics 7y ago
  Eixir/Phoenix at least makes those dependencies go away, but some use nginx (I have) and you might use rabbitmq but only if you want to run a queue that other languages participate in.

luhn 7y ago

I think the parent was speaking specifically about the language, not the ecosystem. More "if I open up this Python file, can I understand what it's doing," not "can I execute this application easily." I think Python is excellent at the former—Syntax is simple and explicit, "clever" code is discourages by both the language and the community. Packaging is a known pain-point in Python and does make the language less approachable. But beyond that I don't understand your criticisms. uwsgi, celery, nginx, RabbitMQ are all useful tools that are oftentimes used in web applications. What language are you using that magics away the need for tools like these? All these same tools or their equivalent still exist in the Rails ecosystem. I don't have much hands on experience with ML, so I guess I can't comment on that. Is there something about Python that exacerbates the issues you've laid out?

dnautics 7y ago
Eixir/Phoenix at least makes those dependencies go away, but some use nginx (I have) and you might use rabbitmq but only if you want to run a queue that other languages participate in.