6 ms·

Former CIA agent tells a horror story: Possible misuse of state secret privilege

39 points by sagarun 16y ago

btilly 16y ago
The state secret privilege just begs to be abused by bureaucrats trying to CYA. In fact the very first time it was used, it was quite likely abused! See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Reynolds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Reynolds for more.
rdtsc 16y ago
In general, how does suing the government work? Isn't the judicial system a part of the government. Can't it just decide to throw away the lawsuit anyway, even if there was no ready available "secrets" excuse? I know the lawsuits happen, but in theory how does it work?
- j_baker 16y ago
  The judicial system is independent of the executive branch. Judges are appointed for life and cannot be removed save for doing something criminal.
  - rdtsc 16y ago
    But how many cases there have been (and won) accusing the government of torture, bad budget decisions, and others? There is the Federal Tort Claims act in case a govt employee injures someone. But that is very limited and a jury is not allowed to decide on the case.
    - j_baker 16y ago
      I didn't say they always made the right decision, did I? However, the courts don't usually agree with the government because they're part of the government themselves.
- gojomo 16y ago
  Yes, the government could simply not consent to be sued, under the doctrine of 'sovereign immunity': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_Unite... But, the government has agreed by prior legislation to be sued in a variety of circumstances (as described in the above article). And, the government is not a monolith acting with one mind and one purpose, so the courts' sense of justice often (ideally, 'always') trumps blind allegiance to other branches of government. (Judges also enjoy procedural protections against meddling by other officeholders.) Consider: what the government occasionally loses in judgements it may gain many times over in greater legitimacy and consensual cooperation from its citizens/contractors/subdivisions/etc.
  - rdtsc 16y ago
    > Consider: what the government occasionally loses in judgements it may gain many times over in greater legitimacy and consensual cooperation from its citizens / contractors / subdivisions / etc. Interesting point. I never thought of it that way. There is apparently the Federal Tort Claims Act. However a jury trial is not allowed.

39 points by sagarun 16y ago

The state secret privilege just begs to be abused by bureaucrats trying to CYA. In fact the very first time it was used, it was quite likely abused! See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Reynolds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Reynolds for more.

rdtsc 16y ago

In general, how does suing the government work? Isn't the judicial system a part of the government. Can't it just decide to throw away the lawsuit anyway, even if there was no ready available "secrets" excuse? I know the lawsuits happen, but in theory how does it work?

j_baker 16y ago
The judicial system is independent of the executive branch. Judges are appointed for life and cannot be removed save for doing something criminal.
- rdtsc 16y ago
  But how many cases there have been (and won) accusing the government of torture, bad budget decisions, and others? There is the Federal Tort Claims act in case a govt employee injures someone. But that is very limited and a jury is not allowed to decide on the case.
  - j_baker 16y ago
    I didn't say they always made the right decision, did I? However, the courts don't usually agree with the government because they're part of the government themselves.
gojomo 16y ago
Yes, the government could simply not consent to be sued, under the doctrine of 'sovereign immunity': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_Unite... But, the government has agreed by prior legislation to be sued in a variety of circumstances (as described in the above article). And, the government is not a monolith acting with one mind and one purpose, so the courts' sense of justice often (ideally, 'always') trumps blind allegiance to other branches of government. (Judges also enjoy procedural protections against meddling by other officeholders.) Consider: what the government occasionally loses in judgements it may gain many times over in greater legitimacy and consensual cooperation from its citizens/contractors/subdivisions/etc.
- rdtsc 16y ago
  > Consider: what the government occasionally loses in judgements it may gain many times over in greater legitimacy and consensual cooperation from its citizens / contractors / subdivisions / etc. Interesting point. I never thought of it that way. There is apparently the Federal Tort Claims Act. However a jury trial is not allowed.