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> The wikipedia article isn't really wrong. Only 60% of the cases go before a jury. The conviction rate for cases that get to the jury around the 95% rate. You

> The wikipedia article isn't really wrong. Only 60% of the cases go before a jury. The conviction rate for cases that get to the jury around the 95% rate. You'd have a point if the stat about Japan was about the conviction rate of people who go before a jury, but unless I'm mistaken, the conviction rate we're talking about is that of people _charged_ overall. That 60% figure in Canada is precisely referring to people who were charged, and whose charges were later dropped. Over 99.4% of people charged in Japan are eventually convicted. Consider what it means to be charged. This allows for example the police to gather more information by doing what would otherwise infringe on someone's rights. So when you basically never drop charges, that means that either you infringe on people's privacy before they're charged, or you routinely disregard whatever exculpatory evidence you find. Either way, it's obviously bad.

deleted 7y ago
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elfexec 7y ago
> but unless I'm mistaken, the conviction rate we're talking about is that of people _charged_ overall. You are mistaken. "Nearly all criminal cases that go to trial in Japan end in a guilty verdict." " Public prosecutors typically concentrate on suits where conviction is almost guaranteed, leading to the suspension of around 60 percent of criminal cases in Japan without an indictment." https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/c05401/order-in-the-court-explaining-japan%E2%80%99s-99-9-conviction-rate.html https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/c05401/order-in-the-c... So japanese prosecutors "drop" 60% of the cases/charges. The only cases they pursue are those they think they can win. They win 99% of those. > That 60% figure in Canada is precisely referring to people who were charged, and whose charges were later dropped. No. In the audio, they specifically stated that 37% ( or about a 3rd of the cases in canada ) are withdrawn, stayed or dropped. Meaning only 63% get to a jury. Of those, 3% are acquitted. > Over 99.4% of people charged in Japan are eventually convicted. Once again, this is not true. Only 40% of those charged ever see trial. Of those, 99.4% are convicted. In other words, 39.8% of those charged are convicted.
emn13 7y ago
It is certainly the case that "being charged" does not mean exactly the same thing in every country; the weight isn't the same everywhere, and the details differ too. So I suppose it's also conceivable that the japanese police can collect enough evidence without formal charges that the innocent go free there. And of course - nobody is entirely innocent. Knowing that once charged you're almost certainly going to be convicted, perhaps suspects cooperate more in hope for leniency. I mean, I doubt law enforcement are angels in japan, but I can imagine fairly benign factors contributing too. Frankly - give how pervasive such high numbers are across much of the world, I'd say the argument for the efficacy of a confrontational legal system is undermined; clearly it's not working ideally.

deleted 7y ago

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elfexec 7y ago

> but unless I'm mistaken, the conviction rate we're talking about is that of people _charged_ overall. You are mistaken. "Nearly all criminal cases that go to trial in Japan end in a guilty verdict." " Public prosecutors typically concentrate on suits where conviction is almost guaranteed, leading to the suspension of around 60 percent of criminal cases in Japan without an indictment." https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/c05401/order-in-the-court-explaining-japan%E2%80%99s-99-9-conviction-rate.html https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/c05401/order-in-the-c... So japanese prosecutors "drop" 60% of the cases/charges. The only cases they pursue are those they think they can win. They win 99% of those. > That 60% figure in Canada is precisely referring to people who were charged, and whose charges were later dropped. No. In the audio, they specifically stated that 37% ( or about a 3rd of the cases in canada ) are withdrawn, stayed or dropped. Meaning only 63% get to a jury. Of those, 3% are acquitted. > Over 99.4% of people charged in Japan are eventually convicted. Once again, this is not true. Only 40% of those charged ever see trial. Of those, 99.4% are convicted. In other words, 39.8% of those charged are convicted.

emn13 7y ago

It is certainly the case that "being charged" does not mean exactly the same thing in every country; the weight isn't the same everywhere, and the details differ too. So I suppose it's also conceivable that the japanese police can collect enough evidence without formal charges that the innocent go free there. And of course - nobody is entirely innocent. Knowing that once charged you're almost certainly going to be convicted, perhaps suspects cooperate more in hope for leniency. I mean, I doubt law enforcement are angels in japan, but I can imagine fairly benign factors contributing too. Frankly - give how pervasive such high numbers are across much of the world, I'd say the argument for the efficacy of a confrontational legal system is undermined; clearly it's not working ideally.