> People started doing silly things like run containers on top of their cloud providers VMs (creating a second layer or isolation and massive amounts of enginee

> People started doing silly things like run containers on top of their cloud providers VMs (creating a second layer or isolation and massive amounts of engineering burden) I've addressed the full quote, and it's entirely wrong and made by someone who clearly has no practical experience running containerized apps. If you read my comment you'll check the points that address that misconception. > No. Running a Kubernetes or Docker cluster is a non trivial task. Kubernetes is not containers. It's a container orchestration service. That's an entirely different thing. It's like you are confounding application installers with the OS that runs the application. And it seems you also confused Docker Swarm, Docker's container orchestration system, with Docker. Those are two entirely different things. And container orchestration services are not a problem. If you ever get the opportunity to learn about containers and container orchestration services, you'll see that Docker Swarm is trivial to use even in bare VMs or even directly in dedicated hardware, once you get the ingress controller thing sorted out. In cloud providers it's even much simpler because ingress controllers are already provided out of the box and you have nifty UIs to configure everything. And by the way, I appreciate if you stop rewriting your points midquote and after you get replies addressing the points you rewrite, because you're misrepresenting everything you and I am saying with each edit.