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> People started doing silly things like run containers on top of their cloud providers VMs This assertion is simply wrong. Running containers in a VM is not s

> People started doing silly things like run containers on top of their cloud providers VMs This assertion is simply wrong. Running containers in a VM is not silly at all. It's a very basic and very important feature. I'm actually surprised how, in HN of all places, this misconception is still mindlessly repeated in this day and age. By firing up a VM you're actually allocating in the cloud the computational resources you need, and by running containers you are using those computational resources as you need. When you need more instances of a service running you replicate a container instance, and if a container instance is idling then you shut it down. If you run close to exhaust the computational resources of your VM instance then you just pick up your credit card and fire up another one to make room to run more containers. You never have to worry about anything because it just works. And Kubernetes is the one responsible for monitoring resources and managing how container and VM instances are initialized or shut down, and how everything is kept up and running and communicating while you worry about nothing.

nailer 7y ago
The full quote is: > People started doing silly things like run containers on top of their cloud providers VMs (creating a second layer of isolation and massive amounts of engineering burden) Regarding your statement: > When you need more instances of a service running you replicate a container instance, and if a container instance is idling then you shut it down. > monitoring resources and managing how container and VM instances are initialized or shut down You're confusing orchestration with isolation. Orchestration has existed far before containers. You are already paying your cloud provider for isolation. Containers are not needed for orchestration. I'm going to take a guess here and say you have been in the tech industry for about five years. And regarding your claim: > You never have to worry about anything because it just works. No. Running a Kubernetes or Docker cluster is a non trivial task. Here's a more likely scenario for running your own container farm on top of the platform your employer already pays for from your cloud provider: you just want to learn Kubernetes and have someone else pay you to do it, despite the lack of business benefit.
- rumanator 7y ago
  > People started doing silly things like run containers on top of their cloud providers VMs (creating a second layer or isolation and massive amounts of engineering burden) I've addressed the full quote, and it's entirely wrong and made by someone who clearly has no practical experience running containerized apps. If you read my comment you'll check the points that address that misconception. > No. Running a Kubernetes or Docker cluster is a non trivial task. Kubernetes is not containers. It's a container orchestration service. That's an entirely different thing. It's like you are confounding application installers with the OS that runs the application. And it seems you also confused Docker Swarm, Docker's container orchestration system, with Docker. Those are two entirely different things. And container orchestration services are not a problem. If you ever get the opportunity to learn about containers and container orchestration services, you'll see that Docker Swarm is trivial to use even in bare VMs or even directly in dedicated hardware, once you get the ingress controller thing sorted out. In cloud providers it's even much simpler because ingress controllers are already provided out of the box and you have nifty UIs to configure everything. And by the way, I appreciate if you stop rewriting your points midquote and after you get replies addressing the points you rewrite, because you're misrepresenting everything you and I am saying with each edit.
  - nailer 7y ago
    I wrote a comment then spent a minute editing it, because I am in bed on a phone. Shrug Here's a shorter version of the entire conversation, quoting you: > By firing up a VM you're actually allocating in the cloud the computational resources you need, and by running containers you are using those computational resources as you need. When you need more instances of a service running you replicate a container instance, and if a container instance is idling then you shut it down. You're confusing isolatation with orchestration. You haven't been in the tech industry a long time. You do not need containers for orchestration. You do not need containers for isolation if you are already paying for VMs.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- scarface74 7y ago

nailer 7y ago

The full quote is: > People started doing silly things like run containers on top of their cloud providers VMs (creating a second layer of isolation and massive amounts of engineering burden) Regarding your statement: > When you need more instances of a service running you replicate a container instance, and if a container instance is idling then you shut it down. > monitoring resources and managing how container and VM instances are initialized or shut down You're confusing orchestration with isolation. Orchestration has existed far before containers. You are already paying your cloud provider for isolation. Containers are not needed for orchestration. I'm going to take a guess here and say you have been in the tech industry for about five years. And regarding your claim: > You never have to worry about anything because it just works. No. Running a Kubernetes or Docker cluster is a non trivial task. Here's a more likely scenario for running your own container farm on top of the platform your employer already pays for from your cloud provider: you just want to learn Kubernetes and have someone else pay you to do it, despite the lack of business benefit.

rumanator 7y ago
> People started doing silly things like run containers on top of their cloud providers VMs (creating a second layer or isolation and massive amounts of engineering burden) I've addressed the full quote, and it's entirely wrong and made by someone who clearly has no practical experience running containerized apps. If you read my comment you'll check the points that address that misconception. > No. Running a Kubernetes or Docker cluster is a non trivial task. Kubernetes is not containers. It's a container orchestration service. That's an entirely different thing. It's like you are confounding application installers with the OS that runs the application. And it seems you also confused Docker Swarm, Docker's container orchestration system, with Docker. Those are two entirely different things. And container orchestration services are not a problem. If you ever get the opportunity to learn about containers and container orchestration services, you'll see that Docker Swarm is trivial to use even in bare VMs or even directly in dedicated hardware, once you get the ingress controller thing sorted out. In cloud providers it's even much simpler because ingress controllers are already provided out of the box and you have nifty UIs to configure everything. And by the way, I appreciate if you stop rewriting your points midquote and after you get replies addressing the points you rewrite, because you're misrepresenting everything you and I am saying with each edit.
- nailer 7y ago
  I wrote a comment then spent a minute editing it, because I am in bed on a phone. Shrug Here's a shorter version of the entire conversation, quoting you: > By firing up a VM you're actually allocating in the cloud the computational resources you need, and by running containers you are using those computational resources as you need. When you need more instances of a service running you replicate a container instance, and if a container instance is idling then you shut it down. You're confusing isolatation with orchestration. You haven't been in the tech industry a long time. You do not need containers for orchestration. You do not need containers for isolation if you are already paying for VMs.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
scarface74 7y ago