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I see a ethic issue with ai recommendations algorithms. Say that YouTube’s algorithm optimizes to offer viewers content that they would like to watch. This max

by acd 7y ago

I see a ethic issue with ai recommendations algorithms. Say that YouTube’s algorithm optimizes to offer viewers content that they would like to watch. This maximizes viewer platform engagement which maximizes advertisement revenue. Say a clinically depressed person starts to watch videos on YouTube. The algorithms does what is does well. Optimize viewer retention and offers more depressing videos to keep the viewer engaged. Viewer gets more even more depressed? What is the moral programming goals? Same could be said for example of violent content. Viewer watches violent content get offered violent content?

raverbashing 7y ago
This is the point that's made here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFTWM7HV2UI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFTWM7HV2UI (ironic that's an YT video, oh well...)
- M4v3R 7y ago
  This is probably one of the most important videos to watch on YouTube. Thanks for sharing that.
logicchains 7y ago
Presumably an AI recommendation algorithm would be incentivised to at least show videos that encouraged a depressed viewer to stay alive to keep viewing, otherwise they'd get less engagement. Similarly encouraging viewers of violent content to go out and commit violence (and probably be jailed) would result in less engagement, so ideally the AI would learn not to do that.
- LockAndLol 7y ago
  The deaths of people create more sad, depressing and violent content, which might attract more depressed and violent people. In the end, it all benefits Youtube.
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  How many people suffering from depression actually attempt suicide after watching a depressive video rather than just continuing? My guess is, not many for AI to learn atm. [1] Students suffering from depression are 3x more likely to attempt and do so when they are less depressed. [3] US suicide rate is 14 per 100,000 (age adjusted and closer to youtube viewers). [0] Taking worst case 25:1 ratio for successful attempts. There would be 350 attempts for every 100,000. Let's say YouTube can somehow narrow down it to students suffering from depression (one category). 3x multiplier - 1050 attempts for 100,000. That's presumably only 1% of very specific targeted audience. You need to decrease that 1% to match people who will supposedly get triggered by a depressing video on YouTube. Conservative guess is 10x less so 0.1% and [2] 7% people of total population suffer from depression in US. Isn't that something around 0.007% of population? What is the motivating factor for the algorithm? Profit. I just don't see how it is magically supposed to learn that. In fact, individuals suffering from depression are more likely to be profitable for youtube if it earns money based on consumption alone. Disclaimer: this is a quick broad guess. It can be pretty wrong. 0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt#epidemiology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt#epidemiology 1] https://www.ukessays.com/essays/psychology/depression-and-suicide-attempt-psychology-essay.php https://www.ukessays.com/essays/psychology/depression-and-su... 2] https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/cbhsq-reports/NSDUHDetailedTabs2017/NSDUHDetailedTabs2017.htm https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/cbhsq-report... 3] https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/ https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

by acd 7y ago

raverbashing 7y ago

This is the point that's made here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFTWM7HV2UI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFTWM7HV2UI (ironic that's an YT video, oh well...)

M4v3R 7y ago
This is probably one of the most important videos to watch on YouTube. Thanks for sharing that.

logicchains 7y ago

Presumably an AI recommendation algorithm would be incentivised to at least show videos that encouraged a depressed viewer to stay alive to keep viewing, otherwise they'd get less engagement. Similarly encouraging viewers of violent content to go out and commit violence (and probably be jailed) would result in less engagement, so ideally the AI would learn not to do that.

LockAndLol 7y ago
The deaths of people create more sad, depressing and violent content, which might attract more depressed and violent people. In the end, it all benefits Youtube.
thrwaway69 7y ago
How many people suffering from depression actually attempt suicide after watching a depressive video rather than just continuing? My guess is, not many for AI to learn atm. [1] Students suffering from depression are 3x more likely to attempt and do so when they are less depressed. [3] US suicide rate is 14 per 100,000 (age adjusted and closer to youtube viewers). [0] Taking worst case 25:1 ratio for successful attempts. There would be 350 attempts for every 100,000. Let's say YouTube can somehow narrow down it to students suffering from depression (one category). 3x multiplier - 1050 attempts for 100,000. That's presumably only 1% of very specific targeted audience. You need to decrease that 1% to match people who will supposedly get triggered by a depressing video on YouTube. Conservative guess is 10x less so 0.1% and [2] 7% people of total population suffer from depression in US. Isn't that something around 0.007% of population? What is the motivating factor for the algorithm? Profit. I just don't see how it is magically supposed to learn that. In fact, individuals suffering from depression are more likely to be profitable for youtube if it earns money based on consumption alone. Disclaimer: this is a quick broad guess. It can be pretty wrong. 0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt#epidemiology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt#epidemiology 1] https://www.ukessays.com/essays/psychology/depression-and-suicide-attempt-psychology-essay.php https://www.ukessays.com/essays/psychology/depression-and-su... 2] https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/cbhsq-reports/NSDUHDetailedTabs2017/NSDUHDetailedTabs2017.htm https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/cbhsq-report... 3] https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/ https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/