4 ms·

A few questions: 1) at best this happens at~50% of the games. The Astros won the series in LA that year. Did they find a way to cheat everywhere? 2) what is the

by S_A_P 7y ago

A few questions: 1) at best this happens at~50% of the games. The Astros won the series in LA that year. Did they find a way to cheat everywhere? 2) what is the end game here? The Astros have won exactly 1 World Series. Hardly a huge disparity. 3) do you think they’re the only team??? 4) what rules were broken? 5) is it wrong for a base runner to scream change-up if they are on 2nd base? Disclaimer: I’m from Houston and of course I want the Astros to win but I don’t think a huge advantage was had here. One could easily get just as outraged by the Yankees having a bottomless bank account to pay their salaries. They Yankees paid 218mm vs 168mm for the Astros. Both teams are on the larger end of the spectrum but I would argue that smaller markets have a huge disadvantage vs the major cities. I’m disappointed that the Astros lost this year but I don’t feel compelled to find a reason the Nationals beat us this year. At the end of the day our pitchers failed(ahem Verlander) and our batters couldn’t hit the superior pitchers in dc. Ironically the “cheaters” couldn’t cheat their way to a second victory. This seems like another case of Twitter and social media amplifying things that don’t matter.

dlbucci 7y ago
Sign stealing is a part of baseball since forever (i.e. with a runner on second, like you mentioned). That's not the problem with what Houston did. They used a camera in the outfield to steal the signs, which is against the rules. They are the only team where there is evidence this happened and they only did it the year they won the World Series, so yeah, that seems like it made a difference. As a Pirates fan, I feel you about the salary issue, but everyone is playing by the same rules, so it's not cheating for a team to spend more. It's a pretty orthogonal issue.
mgoblu3 7y ago
For 5, usually a pitcher and catcher will through multiple signs with a runner on second to scramble the signal, and usually you don’t get enough pitches in to determine which sign is real. With the aid of a camera, the Astros were getting these signals very quickly even though teams were suspicious and using “runner on second” signs against them often.
sintaxi 7y ago
> 1) at best this happens at~50% of the games. That is an assumption. We don't know all the facts yet. Some are suggesting the camera could have been nothing more than a smartphone and there is a source from within the Astros org that say some of the players wore electronic buzzers under their shoulder to signal the call to them. There is no reason to rule out signals were known on the road as well. > 2) what is the end game here? Stop cheaters from winning titles and saving the sport from ruin like cheating did to the sport of boxing. > 3) do you think they’re the only team? Probably not but both existing and former Astros speaking up tells us Astros were doing it at an unprecedented level. > 4) what rules were broken? First of all sign stealing using technology goes all the way back to 1876. Illegal sign stealing involves mechanical or electronic technology; the rules regarding this have become more stringent over time and continue to evolve. This is also why an 8 second delay was added to the broadcast feed. > 5) is it wrong for a base runner to scream change-up if they are on 2nd base? Screaming anything while the opposing pitcher is about to throw I suspect is against the rules but stealing and signalling the signs in other ways is permitted. This is typically done by the base runner using closed fist or open hands. > I don’t think a huge advantage was had here. The Astros obviously thought it was enough of an advantage to break the rules to do it. The Astros went from dead last in the AL in strikeout rate in 2016 to 1st in '17 and their strikeout to walk ratio was an extreme outlier compared to the rest of the league. > Ironically the “cheaters” couldn’t cheat their way to a second victory. Ironic how? Teams were onto them by then. Once you know your opponent is stealing your signs you can use that against them.
_31 7y ago
> ... I don't think a huge advantage was had here. I have too hard disagree on this. Knowing the pitch is a huge advantage in baseball.

by S_A_P 7y ago

dlbucci 7y ago

Sign stealing is a part of baseball since forever (i.e. with a runner on second, like you mentioned). That's not the problem with what Houston did. They used a camera in the outfield to steal the signs, which is against the rules. They are the only team where there is evidence this happened and they only did it the year they won the World Series, so yeah, that seems like it made a difference. As a Pirates fan, I feel you about the salary issue, but everyone is playing by the same rules, so it's not cheating for a team to spend more. It's a pretty orthogonal issue.

mgoblu3 7y ago

For 5, usually a pitcher and catcher will through multiple signs with a runner on second to scramble the signal, and usually you don’t get enough pitches in to determine which sign is real. With the aid of a camera, the Astros were getting these signals very quickly even though teams were suspicious and using “runner on second” signs against them often.

sintaxi 7y ago

> 1) at best this happens at~50% of the games. That is an assumption. We don't know all the facts yet. Some are suggesting the camera could have been nothing more than a smartphone and there is a source from within the Astros org that say some of the players wore electronic buzzers under their shoulder to signal the call to them. There is no reason to rule out signals were known on the road as well. > 2) what is the end game here? Stop cheaters from winning titles and saving the sport from ruin like cheating did to the sport of boxing. > 3) do you think they’re the only team? Probably not but both existing and former Astros speaking up tells us Astros were doing it at an unprecedented level. > 4) what rules were broken? First of all sign stealing using technology goes all the way back to 1876. Illegal sign stealing involves mechanical or electronic technology; the rules regarding this have become more stringent over time and continue to evolve. This is also why an 8 second delay was added to the broadcast feed. > 5) is it wrong for a base runner to scream change-up if they are on 2nd base? Screaming anything while the opposing pitcher is about to throw I suspect is against the rules but stealing and signalling the signs in other ways is permitted. This is typically done by the base runner using closed fist or open hands. > I don’t think a huge advantage was had here. The Astros obviously thought it was enough of an advantage to break the rules to do it. The Astros went from dead last in the AL in strikeout rate in 2016 to 1st in '17 and their strikeout to walk ratio was an extreme outlier compared to the rest of the league. > Ironically the “cheaters” couldn’t cheat their way to a second victory. Ironic how? Teams were onto them by then. Once you know your opponent is stealing your signs you can use that against them.

_31 7y ago

> ... I don't think a huge advantage was had here. I have too hard disagree on this. Knowing the pitch is a huge advantage in baseball.