5 ms·

Maybe it's because I'm relatively young, but I actually like working in an office. I bike 15 minutes to work rather than commuting 2 hours, because my work pays

Maybe it's because I'm relatively young, but I actually like working in an office. I bike 15 minutes to work rather than commuting 2 hours, because my work pays me enough to live close by. I spend some of my time collaborating closely with smart people who are a lot more experienced than me, which seems to be the fastest way to learn. I spend then rest of the time with headphones on facing the corner of the open office, hopefully getting absorbed in my work to the point where I'm not too distracted by the people around me. I eat free food that's better than anything I could make at home. I've had periods of working from home in my life and they've been lonely and unproductive in comparison. My only point is that there _are_ some people who genuinely prefer working at an office.

m0zg 7y ago
And those people can come to the office. But it should really not be a requirement, and work should be structured in such a way as to not penalize people who are remote: around written communication, with infrequent teleconferencing.
- stkdump 7y ago
  I think the problem is that as soon as everyone who has the opportunity to leave the office does so, the training effect for new developers is gone. It might be better for you and your personal performance, but is it better for the company overall? That might not be so clear cut, and one of the reasons why especially big tech is so hesitant -- as opposed to companies that rely on the perk of remote work to be able to attract talent or pay less.
- rocqua 7y ago
  So all employers should reorganize to meet your preferences to be left alone? It might work great for you, it would probably help your productivity. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't have downsides for many others!
  - m0zg 7y ago
    This is a good example of the "so" tell for cognitive dissonance, whereby the sufferer tries to put words in my mouth and starts their diatribe with a "so". It's a free country, "all employers" can do as they please. I just won't work for them if they are not in close proximity, and very few of them are. I'm not going to "move" for a job that I can do from anywhere in the world.
    - majos 7y ago
      The bit about “so” seems wrong. You said > it should really not be a requirement, and work should be structured in such a way as to not penalize people who are remote: around written communication, with infrequent teleconferencing which is reasonably summarized as > all employers should reorganize to meet your preferences to be left alone
- cinquemb 7y ago
  I prefer working remote too and always have (and have done so for that past 4-5 years, I'm 28 years old now), but I don't expect the larger employment environment to conform to my wishes… actually I rather prefer the opposite happens because it makes finding interesting remote work opportunities easier (because I think that a lot of places are starting to have "remote work possible" but mainly its just a lot of noise in the signal compared to places where its the norm).
- titanomachy 7y ago
  It could work. I think the best model is when a company/team adopts a remote-first mindset, then the people who prefer working that way can be productive and happy while people who prefer working in person can work together in an office. My company is pretty well set-up for remote (lots of communication over email and chat, video in every meeting) but I still feel like I miss a lot when I'm not there in person.
humanrebar 7y ago
> I bike 15 minutes to work rather than commuting 2 hours, because my work pays me enough to live close by. For now. Unless you marry another professional, it will be difficult to keep that commute if you decide to start a family. Part of the problem with the Bay Area and NYC is that it's cradle-to-grave unsustainable. That's not to say people don't make it work, but it's unlikely that the average tech worker in those places has replacement-level fertility or will hang around the area with their kids and grandkids to form a multi-generation household.
- titanomachy 7y ago
  I agree that bay area and NYC seem to both have housing costs that outstrip even the high salaries available there. Seattle has similar pay but the cost of living hasn't quite caught up yet. A lot of young professionals buying homes in the city still. Might change in another 10 years though.
astura 7y ago
In fairly old and I like going to the office most days. I worked for years as a sole developer on a project. While I worked from an office I didn't collaborate with others in any meaningful way, yet I still liked going into the office. I've certainly never been friends with my coworkers, but it's really nice to have the same people around with the same goals. I can understand work-from-home like once a week though. I've also never had more than 15 minute commute though. Nowadays I work in on classified material, so there's no possibility whatsoever of remote work.
- titanomachy 7y ago
  Even for someone who likes the office, work from home once a week is a boon. I'd prefer a 4-day workweek, but I'll take what I can get.

m0zg 7y ago

And those people can come to the office. But it should really not be a requirement, and work should be structured in such a way as to not penalize people who are remote: around written communication, with infrequent teleconferencing.

stkdump 7y ago
I think the problem is that as soon as everyone who has the opportunity to leave the office does so, the training effect for new developers is gone. It might be better for you and your personal performance, but is it better for the company overall? That might not be so clear cut, and one of the reasons why especially big tech is so hesitant -- as opposed to companies that rely on the perk of remote work to be able to attract talent or pay less.
rocqua 7y ago
So all employers should reorganize to meet your preferences to be left alone? It might work great for you, it would probably help your productivity. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't have downsides for many others!
- m0zg 7y ago
  This is a good example of the "so" tell for cognitive dissonance, whereby the sufferer tries to put words in my mouth and starts their diatribe with a "so". It's a free country, "all employers" can do as they please. I just won't work for them if they are not in close proximity, and very few of them are. I'm not going to "move" for a job that I can do from anywhere in the world.
  - majos 7y ago
    The bit about “so” seems wrong. You said > it should really not be a requirement, and work should be structured in such a way as to not penalize people who are remote: around written communication, with infrequent teleconferencing which is reasonably summarized as > all employers should reorganize to meet your preferences to be left alone
cinquemb 7y ago
I prefer working remote too and always have (and have done so for that past 4-5 years, I'm 28 years old now), but I don't expect the larger employment environment to conform to my wishes… actually I rather prefer the opposite happens because it makes finding interesting remote work opportunities easier (because I think that a lot of places are starting to have "remote work possible" but mainly its just a lot of noise in the signal compared to places where its the norm).
titanomachy 7y ago
It could work. I think the best model is when a company/team adopts a remote-first mindset, then the people who prefer working that way can be productive and happy while people who prefer working in person can work together in an office. My company is pretty well set-up for remote (lots of communication over email and chat, video in every meeting) but I still feel like I miss a lot when I'm not there in person.

humanrebar 7y ago

> I bike 15 minutes to work rather than commuting 2 hours, because my work pays me enough to live close by. For now. Unless you marry another professional, it will be difficult to keep that commute if you decide to start a family. Part of the problem with the Bay Area and NYC is that it's cradle-to-grave unsustainable. That's not to say people don't make it work, but it's unlikely that the average tech worker in those places has replacement-level fertility or will hang around the area with their kids and grandkids to form a multi-generation household.

titanomachy 7y ago
I agree that bay area and NYC seem to both have housing costs that outstrip even the high salaries available there. Seattle has similar pay but the cost of living hasn't quite caught up yet. A lot of young professionals buying homes in the city still. Might change in another 10 years though.

astura 7y ago

In fairly old and I like going to the office most days. I worked for years as a sole developer on a project. While I worked from an office I didn't collaborate with others in any meaningful way, yet I still liked going into the office. I've certainly never been friends with my coworkers, but it's really nice to have the same people around with the same goals. I can understand work-from-home like once a week though. I've also never had more than 15 minute commute though. Nowadays I work in on classified material, so there's no possibility whatsoever of remote work.

titanomachy 7y ago
Even for someone who likes the office, work from home once a week is a boon. I'd prefer a 4-day workweek, but I'll take what I can get.