5 ms·

Having worked extensively as a TA in an Ivy League school, I must concur with this analysis. It's very easy, even in the hard sciences, to get by without doing

by zeteo 16y ago

Having worked extensively as a TA in an Ivy League school, I must concur with this analysis. It's very easy, even in the hard sciences, to get by without doing any real work and by actually learning very little in the class. If you're really good and put lots of work and interest in the class, you will get an A; but so will a bunch of other people whose main qualification is knowing how to put pressure on the teacher and the TA. If someone comes during office hours, spends enough time, and asks the right sequence of questions, you are practically bound by the rules and the incentives to do 90% of their homework for them. Only exams are relatively less corrupted, but even those are going down the drain as a rigorous method of evaluation (fake learning disabilities, very easy problems, low proportion in overall grade etc.).

WalterBright 16y ago
At Caltech, the homework was 0% of the grade, the final and midterm exams comprised 100%. That was the school policy. You didn't have to show up at all to class or do any of the homework, and could still get an A, and many students did just that. I tried that, though, it didn't work for me :-) In order to pass the exams I discovered I needed to attend all the lectures, do all the homework, and make sure I understood all the homework problems and solutions.
hsmyers 16y ago
Contrast this with of all things, your standard art major--- when your grade depends entirely on the work of your mind AND HANDS, it is much harder to game the system even if such gaming was accidental. I'm sure there has been erosion since I worked my rear end off for each and every credit I earned, but it still comes down to proving you've actually learned what was taught for each studio class. Won't talk about art history, will talk about intro to silversmithing. There is no way to fake knowledge/skill when it comes to swinging a hammer at a piece of metal in an effort to change it's shape in a planned and meaningful manner. Kind of a nice regression-testy sort of thing...
- WalterBright 16y ago
  Caltech had a famous EE lab class. At the beginning, you wrote a spec for the project you would design and build. The spec had to be approved by the prof. At the end of the term, you handed in your project. If it met the spec, you got an A, if it didn't, you got an F. No excuses were accepted.
- spacemanaki 16y ago
  On the other hand, there's no way to fake your code compiling either. We had programming exams in front of Linux shells without network access -- if it didn't compile, you got a 0. This was CS 101 at a big state school. Unfortunately, it wasn't actually such a great method for getting students to learn the material...
  - mikecarlucci 16y ago
    I took a few CS classes at a liberal arts college and those exams were miserable. 3 hours on friday nights a few times a semester. That was part of the reason I switched from CS. Same thing; no compile no grade. And there would be some nervous kids at the 2:45 mark.
vilhelm_s 16y ago
In the courses I have TAed (also in an Ivy League school), homework made up 20% of the grade, and the rest was from exams. With that breakdown, it doesn't matter much how much or little help you get from the TAs, the main purpose of the homework is to help you learn the material.
- zeteo 16y ago
  40% - 60% here (CS classes, HW + projects).

by zeteo 16y ago

WalterBright 16y ago

At Caltech, the homework was 0% of the grade, the final and midterm exams comprised 100%. That was the school policy. You didn't have to show up at all to class or do any of the homework, and could still get an A, and many students did just that. I tried that, though, it didn't work for me :-) In order to pass the exams I discovered I needed to attend all the lectures, do all the homework, and make sure I understood all the homework problems and solutions.

hsmyers 16y ago

Contrast this with of all things, your standard art major--- when your grade depends entirely on the work of your mind AND HANDS, it is much harder to game the system even if such gaming was accidental. I'm sure there has been erosion since I worked my rear end off for each and every credit I earned, but it still comes down to proving you've actually learned what was taught for each studio class. Won't talk about art history, will talk about intro to silversmithing. There is no way to fake knowledge/skill when it comes to swinging a hammer at a piece of metal in an effort to change it's shape in a planned and meaningful manner. Kind of a nice regression-testy sort of thing...

WalterBright 16y ago
Caltech had a famous EE lab class. At the beginning, you wrote a spec for the project you would design and build. The spec had to be approved by the prof. At the end of the term, you handed in your project. If it met the spec, you got an A, if it didn't, you got an F. No excuses were accepted.
spacemanaki 16y ago
On the other hand, there's no way to fake your code compiling either. We had programming exams in front of Linux shells without network access -- if it didn't compile, you got a 0. This was CS 101 at a big state school. Unfortunately, it wasn't actually such a great method for getting students to learn the material...
- mikecarlucci 16y ago
  I took a few CS classes at a liberal arts college and those exams were miserable. 3 hours on friday nights a few times a semester. That was part of the reason I switched from CS. Same thing; no compile no grade. And there would be some nervous kids at the 2:45 mark.

vilhelm_s 16y ago

In the courses I have TAed (also in an Ivy League school), homework made up 20% of the grade, and the rest was from exams. With that breakdown, it doesn't matter much how much or little help you get from the TAs, the main purpose of the homework is to help you learn the material.

zeteo 16y ago
40% - 60% here (CS classes, HW + projects).