4 ms·

> If you can guarantee a society without weapons then everyone is comfortable not having any. Introduce asymmetry and the arms race begins. I haven't seen any

> If you can guarantee a society without weapons then everyone is comfortable not having any. Introduce asymmetry and the arms race begins. I haven't seen any evidence of an arms race in Australia or NZ, for example. > This is a software problem. Brains. Not hardware. So it's the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument performed in staccato with additional tedious rhetoric. Could it be that no one has satisfactorily answered your hypothetical questions because despite you obviously thinking that you've cornered someone with your brilliant socratic method, that you've actually just thrown up a few straw men that are not worth delving into?

robomartin 7y ago
> I haven't seen any evidence of an arms race in Australia or NZ, for example. Their laws prevent it. That's the problem with these comparisons. You have to compare apples to apples. I'm sure they have pretty good gun control in North Korea. There's an app for that. > Could it be that no one has satisfactorily answered your hypothetical questions because despite you obviously thinking that you've cornered someone with your brilliant socratic method, that you've actually just thrown up a few straw men that are not worth delving into? No. People don't answer the question because the only honest answer exposes the fallacy in their thinking. It's very simple, if guns cause violence then giving anyone a gun should turn them into criminals. However, the only way that can happen if for the person to make that decision. The weapon is not the root cause at all. What is also interesting is that every anti-gun proponent I have presented with this scenario immediately resorts to personal attacks, insults, mischaracterization and more, anything except any approximation of an honest answer. If you can't turn someone into a killer by handing them a gun, then, what makes a killer? Well, to begin with, not the gun. Maybe magical pixie dust? I have over thirty years of work in all kinds of technology fields, from the motion picture industry to aerospace, small projects to billion dollar programs. I have yet to see anyone --ANYONE-- solve any problem by IGNORING root causes and focusing on the demonstrably irrelevant. That's the problem with this issue. It has become so polarized and political that nobody, on either side of the argument, wants to address root causes. Because, to borrow the term, these are inconvenient truths. This is equivalent to: "I have a flat tire. OK, let's change the engine!" Here's a tip: Insulting me or my argument does not fix the problem, does not save lives and does nothing towards fixing the real problem. If you are a US citizen and are truly interested in saving lives, stop pushing fantasies and get behind going after true root cause analysis. That's the ONLY way we make things better. I guess I have to ask: What do your root cause analysis of the problem?
- ptcampbell 7y ago
  > Their laws prevent it. That's the problem with these comparisons. You have to compare apples to apples. Oh, OK. Different then. Had better move on. > I'm sure they have pretty good gun control in North Korea. There's an app for that. But this glib comparison with North Korea makes a lot more sense. > No. People don't answer the question because the only honest answer exposes the fallacy in their thinking. Well, firstly, the questions just aren't very good. It would be like if I had asked "Do you not believe children should go to school free from the fear of a mass shooting?" "Do you think believe people have a right to feel safe?" But I wouldn't be asking them in good faith. > This is equivalent to: "I have a flat tire. OK, let's change the engine!" No it isn't. It's generally considered one of many things governments around the world can do to reduce gun violence. Problems have multiple causes and solutions. More guns, more homicide. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-an...
  - robomartin 7y ago
    No, your questions aren't even close to being equivalent. My questions go to the core of the problem. They expose the fallacy in the thinking. That's why gun-control advocates don't want to answer them. Have you ever seen this website: https://heyjackass.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ Check it out. So far, this year, in Chicago, 100 people have been shot and 25 have died. Last week alone 9 people where shot and killed. Yet NOBODY is talking about it in the media. NOBODY. Last year? 2293 shot; 461 killed; 516 homicides. NOBODY TALKS ABOUT IT. EVER! Why? Because Chicago has some of the strictest anti-gun laws in the nation. And Chicago is proof that the approach is nothing less than stupid. When there's a shooting at a mall and 8 people get shot it is all over every single TV network for days and days. Every single politician goes on TV talking about banning guns (mostly "assault rifles"). And yet, that is happening in Chicago EVERY SINGLE WEEK and nobody talks about it. Guns are NOT the problem my friend. Criminals and crazy people are. Period. I can't turn an honest person into a killer by giving them guns. Give criminals and crazy people guns and you have a problem in your hands. The nexus is stupidly clear and yet we seem to, for some incomprehensible reason, not want to talk about it. It's far easier to blame the hardware than the software I guess. Go study the FBI crime data for a bit. Last I looked THOUSANDS of people were murdered using knives, hammers, baseball bats and other objects. These murders didn't happen because someone got a shiny new baseball bat or happened to find a rock! What, they were walking around, saw a rock and though: I need to kill someone! C'mon. Let's get real. That's the only way to save lives.

robomartin 7y ago

> I haven't seen any evidence of an arms race in Australia or NZ, for example. Their laws prevent it. That's the problem with these comparisons. You have to compare apples to apples. I'm sure they have pretty good gun control in North Korea. There's an app for that. > Could it be that no one has satisfactorily answered your hypothetical questions because despite you obviously thinking that you've cornered someone with your brilliant socratic method, that you've actually just thrown up a few straw men that are not worth delving into? No. People don't answer the question because the only honest answer exposes the fallacy in their thinking. It's very simple, if guns cause violence then giving anyone a gun should turn them into criminals. However, the only way that can happen if for the person to make that decision. The weapon is not the root cause at all. What is also interesting is that every anti-gun proponent I have presented with this scenario immediately resorts to personal attacks, insults, mischaracterization and more, anything except any approximation of an honest answer. If you can't turn someone into a killer by handing them a gun, then, what makes a killer? Well, to begin with, not the gun. Maybe magical pixie dust? I have over thirty years of work in all kinds of technology fields, from the motion picture industry to aerospace, small projects to billion dollar programs. I have yet to see anyone --ANYONE-- solve any problem by IGNORING root causes and focusing on the demonstrably irrelevant. That's the problem with this issue. It has become so polarized and political that nobody, on either side of the argument, wants to address root causes. Because, to borrow the term, these are inconvenient truths. This is equivalent to: "I have a flat tire. OK, let's change the engine!" Here's a tip: Insulting me or my argument does not fix the problem, does not save lives and does nothing towards fixing the real problem. If you are a US citizen and are truly interested in saving lives, stop pushing fantasies and get behind going after true root cause analysis. That's the ONLY way we make things better. I guess I have to ask: What do your root cause analysis of the problem?

ptcampbell 7y ago
> Their laws prevent it. That's the problem with these comparisons. You have to compare apples to apples. Oh, OK. Different then. Had better move on. > I'm sure they have pretty good gun control in North Korea. There's an app for that. But this glib comparison with North Korea makes a lot more sense. > No. People don't answer the question because the only honest answer exposes the fallacy in their thinking. Well, firstly, the questions just aren't very good. It would be like if I had asked "Do you not believe children should go to school free from the fear of a mass shooting?" "Do you think believe people have a right to feel safe?" But I wouldn't be asking them in good faith. > This is equivalent to: "I have a flat tire. OK, let's change the engine!" No it isn't. It's generally considered one of many things governments around the world can do to reduce gun violence. Problems have multiple causes and solutions. More guns, more homicide. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-an...
- robomartin 7y ago
  No, your questions aren't even close to being equivalent. My questions go to the core of the problem. They expose the fallacy in the thinking. That's why gun-control advocates don't want to answer them. Have you ever seen this website: https://heyjackass.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ Check it out. So far, this year, in Chicago, 100 people have been shot and 25 have died. Last week alone 9 people where shot and killed. Yet NOBODY is talking about it in the media. NOBODY. Last year? 2293 shot; 461 killed; 516 homicides. NOBODY TALKS ABOUT IT. EVER! Why? Because Chicago has some of the strictest anti-gun laws in the nation. And Chicago is proof that the approach is nothing less than stupid. When there's a shooting at a mall and 8 people get shot it is all over every single TV network for days and days. Every single politician goes on TV talking about banning guns (mostly "assault rifles"). And yet, that is happening in Chicago EVERY SINGLE WEEK and nobody talks about it. Guns are NOT the problem my friend. Criminals and crazy people are. Period. I can't turn an honest person into a killer by giving them guns. Give criminals and crazy people guns and you have a problem in your hands. The nexus is stupidly clear and yet we seem to, for some incomprehensible reason, not want to talk about it. It's far easier to blame the hardware than the software I guess. Go study the FBI crime data for a bit. Last I looked THOUSANDS of people were murdered using knives, hammers, baseball bats and other objects. These murders didn't happen because someone got a shiny new baseball bat or happened to find a rock! What, they were walking around, saw a rock and though: I need to kill someone! C'mon. Let's get real. That's the only way to save lives.