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The influence of “out there” thinking like this is pretty hard to spot if you’re looking for a direct descendent. His talk on interactive computing has affected

The influence of “out there” thinking like this is pretty hard to spot if you’re looking for a direct descendent. His talk on interactive computing has affected the way that I personally design and build products, so there you go. I’m sure the same is true for many others. This is like complaining that concept cars are bullshit because you haven’t seen a car that looks like one on Main St in Podunk, USA. As a sidenote, the “wet in the knickers” language and overall tone of these comments is extremely juvenile if you’re actually trying to have a good faith conversation about this.

coldtea 7y ago
>I think it was Inventing on Principle that got HN all wet in their knickers. Literally nothing of any practical value has come of it. (...) EDIT: For the downvoters (not that I care): Name a single thing that came of it. Seriously. Swift Playgrounds is obviously inspired by it, parts of which later made it into XCode proper [1]. Criss Lattner: "Playgrounds were heavily influenced by Bret Victor's ideas, by Light Table and by many other interactive systems." Now, I guess, to not admit defeat (which was previously premised on nothing of any practical value having come out of Inventing on Pricinple) your next step would be to belittle Swift Playgrounds as having no practical value. Not to mention that "what came of it" is hardly the best criterium to judge an idea. For one, our industry is not exactly the best at adopting things, or being driven by ideas and innovation. Corporate wise it's mostly about selling snake oil, reinventing BS and making 3Ghz/32GB computers feel slower than Pentiums with bloat... Second, because inspiration can take many forms, aside from direct implementation of the original idea. E.g. while Lighttable and Swift Playgrounds/XCode Playgrounds are based heavily on the program shown in the presentation, the presentation has wider ideas that go beyond the exact program shown (which is just an example to make the point). As such, it has already inspired many UI designers, and many UI choices, and many have admitted so - even if they don't make the same kind of programming environment. >They failed. These ideas are not workable, sadly. (I really want a world where they are, but they aren't.) Your comments don't make it like one who cares either way, they're mostly about putting down the "idea man" (how does one dare have ideas, and even worse non-practical ones? The gal! We should all be working on practical things, like the nth CRUD apps, some Electron UI, a Go/Rust rewrite of some backend service, etc). [1] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/402/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/402/
- ethanbond 7y ago
  Just FYI, your comment appears to be a response to the parent of my comment, not to me :). Agreed on all points!
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Yes, exactly! Sorry for attaching it to yours, the parent comment didn't have a way to reply directly (perhaps banned?)

coldtea 7y ago

>I think it was Inventing on Principle that got HN all wet in their knickers. Literally nothing of any practical value has come of it. (...) EDIT: For the downvoters (not that I care): Name a single thing that came of it. Seriously. Swift Playgrounds is obviously inspired by it, parts of which later made it into XCode proper [1]. Criss Lattner: "Playgrounds were heavily influenced by Bret Victor's ideas, by Light Table and by many other interactive systems." Now, I guess, to not admit defeat (which was previously premised on nothing of any practical value having come out of Inventing on Pricinple) your next step would be to belittle Swift Playgrounds as having no practical value. Not to mention that "what came of it" is hardly the best criterium to judge an idea. For one, our industry is not exactly the best at adopting things, or being driven by ideas and innovation. Corporate wise it's mostly about selling snake oil, reinventing BS and making 3Ghz/32GB computers feel slower than Pentiums with bloat... Second, because inspiration can take many forms, aside from direct implementation of the original idea. E.g. while Lighttable and Swift Playgrounds/XCode Playgrounds are based heavily on the program shown in the presentation, the presentation has wider ideas that go beyond the exact program shown (which is just an example to make the point). As such, it has already inspired many UI designers, and many UI choices, and many have admitted so - even if they don't make the same kind of programming environment. >They failed. These ideas are not workable, sadly. (I really want a world where they are, but they aren't.) Your comments don't make it like one who cares either way, they're mostly about putting down the "idea man" (how does one dare have ideas, and even worse non-practical ones? The gal! We should all be working on practical things, like the nth CRUD apps, some Electron UI, a Go/Rust rewrite of some backend service, etc). [1] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/402/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/402/

ethanbond 7y ago
Just FYI, your comment appears to be a response to the parent of my comment, not to me :). Agreed on all points!
- coldtea 7y ago
  Yes, exactly! Sorry for attaching it to yours, the parent comment didn't have a way to reply directly (perhaps banned?)