4 ms·

So long as admissions are not solely test based (like in many countries) then it will be gamed. The 2019 college admissions bribery scandal is the tip of the ic

So long as admissions are not solely test based (like in many countries) then it will be gamed. The 2019 college admissions bribery scandal is the tip of the iceberg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_bribery_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_briber... There are also other ways of getting easier admission to selective schools in the US by saying you are for example Native American.

eesmith 7y ago
Enough people falsely believe they are Native American - the "Cherokee princess" myth; http://www.native-languages.org/princess.htm http://www.native-languages.org/princess.htm - that I can't believe that simply saying one is Native American is enough to get easier admission. Here's how I envision it. I write in my essay that "I'm proud that I'm part Native American. My grandmother told me that her great-grandmother was Cherokee. My ancestors were forced off their land, and I think that's a tragedy.", etc. Admissions officer reads it, rolls eyes, then plops it into the rejection pile. Do you have something more substantial in mind than just "saying" to get easier admission?
- yostrovs 7y ago
  Please review the case of Elizabeth Warren. She became a Harvard professor by saying she's a native Cherokee.
  - eesmith 7y ago
    notlukesky was talking about admissions to selective universities, not employment as a professor. Following your tangent, yes, I have reviewed it, and not, she did not. There is no evidence, despite considerable review, that that happened, and you are repeating false propaganda. Eg, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-native-american/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-n... : > But specific evidence that she gained her position at Harvard (at least in part) through her claims to Native American heritage is lacking. Warren denied applying for special consideration as a person of Native American heritage during her career, and when the matter was examined in 2012 in response to Brown’s claims, people with whom Warren had worked similarly denied her ancestral background’s factoring into the professional opportunities afforded her ... > In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman.
    - tomohawk 7y ago
      Snopes is not what it once was. You can clearly see her false claim in her own hand writing here: https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article237751529.html https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article237751529.h...
      - RobAtticus 7y ago
        Nobody, not even her, denies that she claimed to be Native American. Snopes is fact checking whether it helped her achieve her position at Harvard. And their conclusion, despite being investigated, no evidence has emerged that it did aid her.
        tomohawk 7y ago
        Given that she refuses to release the personnel files that would show what she claimed, I guess we'll never know.
        eesmith 7y ago
        You'll never know because you are doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la-la-la" when anyone tells you you're wrong. You are willfully ignoring evidence. You may dismiss Snopes outright, but Snopes is not the sole source of the evidence, but rather a summary. And Snopes links to their sources. Here's one, which is the primary source for one of the paragraphs I quoted: https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claim... In it you'll read a Boston Globe article from 2018: > But this year, as she campaigns for reelection to the Senate and considers a 2020 presidential bid, she has taken a major step: releasing the contents of her university personnel files to the Globe after six years of rebuffing requests for them.
- MandieD 7y ago
  I grew up being told by various family members about a great-great grandfather whose mother was Comanche. “You’re so very lucky to have taken after your grandmother, with those high cheekbones! They’re from her Comanche great-grandmother.” The whole “Comanche/Cherokee princess” thing is not an uncommon family myth in Texas and Oklahoma, and I had a high school classmate whose mother thoroughly believed she was 1/8 Native and therefore eligible for all sorts of scholarships. I now realize that it is probably unlikely that said great-great-great grandmother of mine was Comanche.
lmkg 7y ago
But test-based admissions can also be gamed. And the scandal that you cited has quite a few examples of that.
protomyth 7y ago
Hopefully, the admissions office requires you to furnish your tribal ID or paper showing you are an enrolled member. There are plenty of articles showing blood tests are inaccurate and basically showing ignorance of the whole issue.
- walshemj 7y ago
  Coaching students for Oxbridge in the UK is another example

eesmith 7y ago

Enough people falsely believe they are Native American - the "Cherokee princess" myth; http://www.native-languages.org/princess.htm http://www.native-languages.org/princess.htm - that I can't believe that simply saying one is Native American is enough to get easier admission. Here's how I envision it. I write in my essay that "I'm proud that I'm part Native American. My grandmother told me that her great-grandmother was Cherokee. My ancestors were forced off their land, and I think that's a tragedy.", etc. Admissions officer reads it, rolls eyes, then plops it into the rejection pile. Do you have something more substantial in mind than just "saying" to get easier admission?

yostrovs 7y ago
Please review the case of Elizabeth Warren. She became a Harvard professor by saying she's a native Cherokee.
- eesmith 7y ago
  notlukesky was talking about admissions to selective universities, not employment as a professor. Following your tangent, yes, I have reviewed it, and not, she did not. There is no evidence, despite considerable review, that that happened, and you are repeating false propaganda. Eg, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-native-american/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-n... : > But specific evidence that she gained her position at Harvard (at least in part) through her claims to Native American heritage is lacking. Warren denied applying for special consideration as a person of Native American heritage during her career, and when the matter was examined in 2012 in response to Brown’s claims, people with whom Warren had worked similarly denied her ancestral background’s factoring into the professional opportunities afforded her ... > In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman.
  - tomohawk 7y ago
    Snopes is not what it once was. You can clearly see her false claim in her own hand writing here: https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article237751529.html https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article237751529.h...
    - RobAtticus 7y ago
      Nobody, not even her, denies that she claimed to be Native American. Snopes is fact checking whether it helped her achieve her position at Harvard. And their conclusion, despite being investigated, no evidence has emerged that it did aid her.
      - tomohawk 7y ago
        Given that she refuses to release the personnel files that would show what she claimed, I guess we'll never know.
        eesmith 7y ago
        You'll never know because you are doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la-la-la" when anyone tells you you're wrong. You are willfully ignoring evidence. You may dismiss Snopes outright, but Snopes is not the sole source of the evidence, but rather a summary. And Snopes links to their sources. Here's one, which is the primary source for one of the paragraphs I quoted: https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claim... In it you'll read a Boston Globe article from 2018: > But this year, as she campaigns for reelection to the Senate and considers a 2020 presidential bid, she has taken a major step: releasing the contents of her university personnel files to the Globe after six years of rebuffing requests for them.
MandieD 7y ago
I grew up being told by various family members about a great-great grandfather whose mother was Comanche. “You’re so very lucky to have taken after your grandmother, with those high cheekbones! They’re from her Comanche great-grandmother.” The whole “Comanche/Cherokee princess” thing is not an uncommon family myth in Texas and Oklahoma, and I had a high school classmate whose mother thoroughly believed she was 1/8 Native and therefore eligible for all sorts of scholarships. I now realize that it is probably unlikely that said great-great-great grandmother of mine was Comanche.

lmkg 7y ago

But test-based admissions can also be gamed. And the scandal that you cited has quite a few examples of that.

protomyth 7y ago

Hopefully, the admissions office requires you to furnish your tribal ID or paper showing you are an enrolled member. There are plenty of articles showing blood tests are inaccurate and basically showing ignorance of the whole issue.

walshemj 7y ago
Coaching students for Oxbridge in the UK is another example