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My SUS company, EasyALPR focuses on commercial parking enforcement / vehicle control. First, the people who get "in trouble" are often absolutely brazen in the

My SUS company, EasyALPR focuses on commercial parking enforcement / vehicle control. First, the people who get "in trouble" are often absolutely brazen in their unfair use of common parking. They're warned multiple times and even when given a "last chance" notice they'll just keep breaking rules. At that point you have to TOW them. And let me tell you, a TOW is something you can't lampoon or get free internet off of. Towing SUCKS and drivers bend the knee after this happens. I have data to prove it! Anyhow, another thing about these folks is that they will go so far as to dispute that the vehicle was in fact in violation of whatever parking rule. They'll say the warnings were not real and the tow reason was definitely not real. They'll tell the business IT needs to pay for the tow. Well, their faces change when confronted with photos and maps and times showing each violation! It isn't really that funny, but it is a big deal to any facility because some low-level administrator has to face some really pissed off people who will break rules and lie because it has always worked. So it is really important to give them great evidence so there isn't really a discussion needed. If you want to check out my product, here's the landing page: https://easyalpr.com/products/parking-enforcer https://easyalpr.com/products/parking-enforcer

angry_octet 7y ago
You're still working to oppress poor people man. Literally surveillance capitalism. You can separate the bad effects your work is having on people from the marginal good of confronting scofflaws.
- Kalium 7y ago
  How would they go about doing what you suggest, and separating the good of confronting scofflaws from the bad effects of oppressing poor people?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - bredren 7y ago
    This is higher level than this question, but I actually think the entire individual ownership of vehicles and having them the only viable method for getting to work for many as fundamentally broken. So while I operate this tool that enforces a thing, I don't own a car myself and I honestly can't wait for some autonomous fleet-based future where parking lots are torn up and streets are wider and safer for bicycles and alternative transportation vehicles.
    - angry_octet 7y ago
      Car pooling is a big win. Universities should encourage it. Primary obstacle is probably perceptions of safety.
      - megablast 7y ago
        You know how you encourage it? High price on parking, and punishing abusers.
        angry_octet 7y ago
        Victorian thought is not dead I see. Well, instead you might incentiveise it through having car pool car parks that are closer to campus, or at least next to a well lit and preferably sheltered area. Then you could publicise the car pool scheme. You could even have a forum for finding other car poopers, and/or an app. Maybe allow people, with their consent, to be matched by approx origin/destination for easier finding. If you had a computer science or math department then I'm sure they would have people who could solve the ride matching problem.
        st1ck 7y ago
        But GP is correct. They only missed the part where the profits from increased parking fees should be used to either lower tuition, or spent on one of your schemes or public transport infrastructure.
        Kalium 7y ago
- Wooo0pdaddy 7y ago
  lol! you have to be kidding! so poor people don't have to follow rules? bet you think immigrants don't have to follow immigration laws either. gold! lol!!!
- petee 7y ago
  Park legally then. It's easy, and tons of poor people do it every day. It's just a select noisy few who want to park wherever and blame someone else.
  - angry_octet 7y ago
    Says the person who has always had enough money and has strong opinions about poverty.
    - brewdad 7y ago
      If you can't afford the $4 for parking, you can't afford a car. The rules don't become optional because you can't afford them. Being poor sucks but it doesn't give anyone the right to ignore the law.
      - Talanes 7y ago
        And we've designed much of the world in such a way that if you can't afford a car, you can't participate in society in any meaningful way, so maybe come up with better solutions than "Don't drive lol."
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - angry_octet 7y ago
        Wow, so parking for 130 minutes in a 120 minute spot is breaking the law now? There was I thinking it's a contractual dispute.
    - petee 7y ago
      Says the person making strong assumptions? Following the law, and not acting like a dick, are choices that are made independent of wealth, period.
- bredren 7y ago
  Quite an accusation, but I'll bite. The alternative to this solution is literally a clipboard and excel that doesn't really work. Allowing parking patrollers to capture photos and coordinates allows secretaries to avoid sometimes violent confrontations and I'm happy about that. As for oppressing poor people, the great majority of people who I've seen get towed thanks to record keeping by EasyALPR are parking at commercial business parks. These are out in the suburbs and serve everything from medical offices to joe schmoe SEO company. The most common violation is people parking in two hour parking for 3+ hours or all day. The parking is free, but it is restricted to two hours. (This is actually a very difficult thing to enforce regularly manually) At the site I'm thinking of, there is actually longer term parking also free nearby for this facility, but people don't want to walk so they keep seeing if they can get away with abusing the closer short term parking. It is even allowed to move your vehicle to get two more hours for free, they just don't care.
  - angry_octet 7y ago
    Several points: - On the parking side, rich people can pay for parking. Some rich people don't and will get fines, which they can pay. Some poor people will risk getting a ticket so they can not spend that $4. (Someone will respond "just leave earlier and park further away" so let me premptively remind them thar poor people are often, e.g. single parents, working multiple jobs, etc, and don't have the luxury of leaving an hour earlier.) Then that person will get a $200 parking fine and it will be enough to plunge them from scraping by to even riskier practices (not having insurance, bad tires, pay day loans, etc) or even dropping out of university / school. - Systematic ALPR is extremly effective. Literally everyone infringing will get a ticket if there are enough cars do scanning. Enforcement is often subcontracted out, with an objective criteria of maximising fines. - Instead of the university administration focusing on priority areas, such as where parking would block exits, it becomes a profit source and they lose sight of what parking is for -- access by staff and students. - ALPR is often part of an NSA style 'COLLECT ALL' policy. It will record the timestamped location of every vehicle. It is often onsold to data brokers, where it ends up in the hands of car repo services, people stalking their ex-partners, and, indirectly, the government. - Obviously these things may not concern you, and there are indeed many other engineers who will enable this kind of surveillance. However, I believe there is a market for privacy respecting tech. - Instead of providing direct ALPR time/location, consider providing just hits where it exceeds the max time period, and deleting scanning logs automatically. Make this part of the value proposition. (Obviously not possible with an SDK product, but consider who the buyers are and the licence terms you provide it under.) - I dislike illegal parkers, bad drivers and so on as much as the next person, but I won't endorse the beginnings of a Chinese 'social credit' type system. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/ethics-board-one-largest-vendors-police-tech-makes-case-against-alprs https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/ethics-board-one-large...
rectang 7y ago
Not all heroes wear capes. Thank you on behalf of all those administrators having to deal with the abuse! PS: Do you have stats on the overlap between parking violators and people who refuse to pick up after their dogs?
- ratww 7y ago
  > Not all heroes wear capes The best ones do, however: http://heroesinthenight.blogspot.com/2012/08/angle-grinder-man-legacy-continues.html http://heroesinthenight.blogspot.com/2012/08/angle-grinder-m...
  - rectang 7y ago
    I'll be rooting for the real hero EasyALPR to clean up the neighborhood and tow these caped croutons.
- bredren 7y ago
  :) I would not be surprised if there was great overlap. Probably correlates with people who throw their cigarette butts on the sidewalk. :P
pitay 7y ago
Yeah there is a saying that goes something like: "If you think some organizations are bad, wait until you see some of the customers."

angry_octet 7y ago

You're still working to oppress poor people man. Literally surveillance capitalism. You can separate the bad effects your work is having on people from the marginal good of confronting scofflaws.

Kalium 7y ago
How would they go about doing what you suggest, and separating the good of confronting scofflaws from the bad effects of oppressing poor people?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bredren 7y ago
  This is higher level than this question, but I actually think the entire individual ownership of vehicles and having them the only viable method for getting to work for many as fundamentally broken. So while I operate this tool that enforces a thing, I don't own a car myself and I honestly can't wait for some autonomous fleet-based future where parking lots are torn up and streets are wider and safer for bicycles and alternative transportation vehicles.
  - angry_octet 7y ago
    Car pooling is a big win. Universities should encourage it. Primary obstacle is probably perceptions of safety.
    - megablast 7y ago
      You know how you encourage it? High price on parking, and punishing abusers.
      - angry_octet 7y ago
        Victorian thought is not dead I see. Well, instead you might incentiveise it through having car pool car parks that are closer to campus, or at least next to a well lit and preferably sheltered area. Then you could publicise the car pool scheme. You could even have a forum for finding other car poopers, and/or an app. Maybe allow people, with their consent, to be matched by approx origin/destination for easier finding. If you had a computer science or math department then I'm sure they would have people who could solve the ride matching problem.
        st1ck 7y ago
        But GP is correct. They only missed the part where the profits from increased parking fees should be used to either lower tuition, or spent on one of your schemes or public transport infrastructure.
        Kalium 7y ago
Wooo0pdaddy 7y ago
lol! you have to be kidding! so poor people don't have to follow rules? bet you think immigrants don't have to follow immigration laws either. gold! lol!!!
petee 7y ago
Park legally then. It's easy, and tons of poor people do it every day. It's just a select noisy few who want to park wherever and blame someone else.
- angry_octet 7y ago
  Says the person who has always had enough money and has strong opinions about poverty.
  - brewdad 7y ago
    If you can't afford the $4 for parking, you can't afford a car. The rules don't become optional because you can't afford them. Being poor sucks but it doesn't give anyone the right to ignore the law.
    - Talanes 7y ago
      And we've designed much of the world in such a way that if you can't afford a car, you can't participate in society in any meaningful way, so maybe come up with better solutions than "Don't drive lol."
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - angry_octet 7y ago
      Wow, so parking for 130 minutes in a 120 minute spot is breaking the law now? There was I thinking it's a contractual dispute.
  - petee 7y ago
    Says the person making strong assumptions? Following the law, and not acting like a dick, are choices that are made independent of wealth, period.
bredren 7y ago
Quite an accusation, but I'll bite. The alternative to this solution is literally a clipboard and excel that doesn't really work. Allowing parking patrollers to capture photos and coordinates allows secretaries to avoid sometimes violent confrontations and I'm happy about that. As for oppressing poor people, the great majority of people who I've seen get towed thanks to record keeping by EasyALPR are parking at commercial business parks. These are out in the suburbs and serve everything from medical offices to joe schmoe SEO company. The most common violation is people parking in two hour parking for 3+ hours or all day. The parking is free, but it is restricted to two hours. (This is actually a very difficult thing to enforce regularly manually) At the site I'm thinking of, there is actually longer term parking also free nearby for this facility, but people don't want to walk so they keep seeing if they can get away with abusing the closer short term parking. It is even allowed to move your vehicle to get two more hours for free, they just don't care.
- angry_octet 7y ago
  Several points: - On the parking side, rich people can pay for parking. Some rich people don't and will get fines, which they can pay. Some poor people will risk getting a ticket so they can not spend that $4. (Someone will respond "just leave earlier and park further away" so let me premptively remind them thar poor people are often, e.g. single parents, working multiple jobs, etc, and don't have the luxury of leaving an hour earlier.) Then that person will get a $200 parking fine and it will be enough to plunge them from scraping by to even riskier practices (not having insurance, bad tires, pay day loans, etc) or even dropping out of university / school. - Systematic ALPR is extremly effective. Literally everyone infringing will get a ticket if there are enough cars do scanning. Enforcement is often subcontracted out, with an objective criteria of maximising fines. - Instead of the university administration focusing on priority areas, such as where parking would block exits, it becomes a profit source and they lose sight of what parking is for -- access by staff and students. - ALPR is often part of an NSA style 'COLLECT ALL' policy. It will record the timestamped location of every vehicle. It is often onsold to data brokers, where it ends up in the hands of car repo services, people stalking their ex-partners, and, indirectly, the government. - Obviously these things may not concern you, and there are indeed many other engineers who will enable this kind of surveillance. However, I believe there is a market for privacy respecting tech. - Instead of providing direct ALPR time/location, consider providing just hits where it exceeds the max time period, and deleting scanning logs automatically. Make this part of the value proposition. (Obviously not possible with an SDK product, but consider who the buyers are and the licence terms you provide it under.) - I dislike illegal parkers, bad drivers and so on as much as the next person, but I won't endorse the beginnings of a Chinese 'social credit' type system. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/ethics-board-one-largest-vendors-police-tech-makes-case-against-alprs https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/ethics-board-one-large...

rectang 7y ago

Not all heroes wear capes. Thank you on behalf of all those administrators having to deal with the abuse! PS: Do you have stats on the overlap between parking violators and people who refuse to pick up after their dogs?

ratww 7y ago
> Not all heroes wear capes The best ones do, however: http://heroesinthenight.blogspot.com/2012/08/angle-grinder-man-legacy-continues.html http://heroesinthenight.blogspot.com/2012/08/angle-grinder-m...
- rectang 7y ago
  I'll be rooting for the real hero EasyALPR to clean up the neighborhood and tow these caped croutons.
bredren 7y ago
:) I would not be surprised if there was great overlap. Probably correlates with people who throw their cigarette butts on the sidewalk. :P

pitay 7y ago

Yeah there is a saying that goes something like: "If you think some organizations are bad, wait until you see some of the customers."