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You only have to look at John Deere to see what manufacturers will do without sufficient regulation in favour of consumer rights. https://www.wired.com/story/j

You only have to look at John Deere to see what manufacturers will do without sufficient regulation in favour of consumer rights. https://www.wired.com/story/john-deere-farmers-right-to-repair/ https://www.wired.com/story/john-deere-farmers-right-to-repa...

randallsquared 7y ago
Not to worry: once there is sufficient regulation in a given product category, said regulations may eventually mandate that products refuse to work without server connections and kill switches. You know, for consumer safety. Or to combat wrong information. Or whatever it is that decade.
allovernow 7y ago
I acknowledge that this is a huge problem, but I can't help but feel like this is a massive opportunity for a competitor to charge a premium for a saner, more consumer friendly business model. So it might take a couple years but I'm not convinced yet that regulation is necessary - especially considering said regulation in the long run can have unintended side effects and chances are because of lobbying and regulatory capture it won't actually benefit the consumer much, if at all. Legislation is much more difficult to overturn than shitty market forces if consumers are savy and willing to vote with their wallets.
- silon42 7y ago
  There should also be a room for third party to do a complete replacement of electronics, for a tractor this seems quite viable.
- F_J_H 7y ago
  There was a good point raised about this very idea on an earlier thread, which resonated with me based on other things I've read. Basically, small and medium sized family farms, (i.e. the hearty, resourceful folk who want to fix their own damn tractors, thank you very much (e.g. my father and grandfather)), are disappearing.[0] They are being replaced by large, corporate "factory" farms, who have little interest in doing repairs on tractors that go beyond basic maintenance. Rather than building a staff of what are becoming increasingly sophisticated (i.e. expensive) technicians, along with the necessary facilities that meet all safety regulations, etc., a simple "tractor service" is preferred. So, the customer base of the "consumer friendly business model" may not be large enough to support such an endeavor. The times, they are a-changin'... [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/09/american-food-giants-swallow-the-family-farms-iowa https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/09/american... *edit: typos
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- rebuilder 7y ago
  I don't see any reason to be optimistic about consumers guiding the market. It seems like everything points to cheap, ad-filled crud winning out over premium "ethical" alternatives all the time. Apple might be a counter example, but I think many would debate that.
- vangelis 7y ago
  I think the problem is you get crushed by the incumbents before you have a chance to take off. John Deere has lots of infrastructure (manufacturing, service) already in place. In a different market, see Google trying to break into the ISP space.
  - lrem 7y ago
    Was Google's failure there due to lack of technical infrastructure?
    - vangelis 7y ago
      They had plenty of expertise but an extremely hard time securing utility pole right of way, IIRC, to the point of being sued my incumbents to stop them providing service.

randallsquared 7y ago

Not to worry: once there is sufficient regulation in a given product category, said regulations may eventually mandate that products refuse to work without server connections and kill switches. You know, for consumer safety. Or to combat wrong information. Or whatever it is that decade.

allovernow 7y ago

I acknowledge that this is a huge problem, but I can't help but feel like this is a massive opportunity for a competitor to charge a premium for a saner, more consumer friendly business model. So it might take a couple years but I'm not convinced yet that regulation is necessary - especially considering said regulation in the long run can have unintended side effects and chances are because of lobbying and regulatory capture it won't actually benefit the consumer much, if at all. Legislation is much more difficult to overturn than shitty market forces if consumers are savy and willing to vote with their wallets.

silon42 7y ago
There should also be a room for third party to do a complete replacement of electronics, for a tractor this seems quite viable.
F_J_H 7y ago
There was a good point raised about this very idea on an earlier thread, which resonated with me based on other things I've read. Basically, small and medium sized family farms, (i.e. the hearty, resourceful folk who want to fix their own damn tractors, thank you very much (e.g. my father and grandfather)), are disappearing.[0] They are being replaced by large, corporate "factory" farms, who have little interest in doing repairs on tractors that go beyond basic maintenance. Rather than building a staff of what are becoming increasingly sophisticated (i.e. expensive) technicians, along with the necessary facilities that meet all safety regulations, etc., a simple "tractor service" is preferred. So, the customer base of the "consumer friendly business model" may not be large enough to support such an endeavor. The times, they are a-changin'... [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/09/american-food-giants-swallow-the-family-farms-iowa https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/09/american... *edit: typos
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
rebuilder 7y ago
I don't see any reason to be optimistic about consumers guiding the market. It seems like everything points to cheap, ad-filled crud winning out over premium "ethical" alternatives all the time. Apple might be a counter example, but I think many would debate that.
vangelis 7y ago
I think the problem is you get crushed by the incumbents before you have a chance to take off. John Deere has lots of infrastructure (manufacturing, service) already in place. In a different market, see Google trying to break into the ISP space.
- lrem 7y ago
  Was Google's failure there due to lack of technical infrastructure?
  - vangelis 7y ago
    They had plenty of expertise but an extremely hard time securing utility pole right of way, IIRC, to the point of being sued my incumbents to stop them providing service.