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What if some people prefer to live in nice "hip" cities (that for them means culturally interesting) even at the cost of living without a private garden in a de

What if some people prefer to live in nice "hip" cities (that for them means culturally interesting) even at the cost of living without a private garden in a detached house?

choeger 7y ago
Then these people should explain how all the Starbucks employees, the janitors, and the delivery guys that make their "culturally interesting" living possible should live and travel to work. Just because you can effort a nice 2room apartment 20min from downtown does not mean that a single mom can afford a 3 room one for herself and her two childre. Instead these people are forced to either travel ever longer with ever worse public transport or live in ever worse conditions, usually both. Gentrification is the downside of densification. And now the hip class wants to get rid of cars in their hip inner cities, because they don't need them. Again totally ignoring everyone that is both forced to live outside of the centre and work inside of it. Actually, I think the minimum wage should be coupled to the typical rent around the working place. Good luck getting your new smartphone delivered then.
- cowsandmilk 7y ago
  > Gentrification is the downside of densification. You’re smoking some strong stuff if you think densifications causes gentrification. Reality has always been gentrification leads to investment leads to densification.
  - choeger 7y ago
    Yeah right, all these "culturally interesting" places just happen to be the dense run-down areas of cities by pure chance... Gentrification starts with some Avantgarde subculture(s) rallying in parts of a city that are cheap and dense enough to find enough followers. Later, followers with many expulse the old residents and push the prices. This does never happen in some rural area.
- allendoerfer 7y ago
  > Then these people should explain how all the Starbucks employees, the janitors, and the delivery guys that make their "culturally interesting" living possible should live and travel to work. They could simply argue, that these jobs would not exist without densification. Take the other extreme: I don't think Starbucks employees would earn more if everyone would live on firms miles apart from each other. Starbucks would be gone in this scenario. Everyone would be poorer, albeit equally poorer. So I would argue, you need to invest in public transportation and housing of different price ranges, possibly even built by the city itself, so threre are less incentives to defend legislation hindering new buildings, the actual reason why those workers are getting squeezed out. If you additionally try to focus on education and upward mobility you get a fair society.
- matteuan 7y ago
  lol. You forget that more density can increase supply and drive the price down for everyone. In your ideal world you would move high paying jobs into uninteresting areas, force these people to live in big houses (that they don't need), make them have a car (that they don't need) so they can bring some money for other jobs like janitors needing a car and a detached house?

What if some people prefer to live in nice "hip" cities (that for them means culturally interesting) even at the cost of living without a private garden in a detached house?

choeger 7y ago

Then these people should explain how all the Starbucks employees, the janitors, and the delivery guys that make their "culturally interesting" living possible should live and travel to work. Just because you can effort a nice 2room apartment 20min from downtown does not mean that a single mom can afford a 3 room one for herself and her two childre. Instead these people are forced to either travel ever longer with ever worse public transport or live in ever worse conditions, usually both. Gentrification is the downside of densification. And now the hip class wants to get rid of cars in their hip inner cities, because they don't need them. Again totally ignoring everyone that is both forced to live outside of the centre and work inside of it. Actually, I think the minimum wage should be coupled to the typical rent around the working place. Good luck getting your new smartphone delivered then.

cowsandmilk 7y ago
> Gentrification is the downside of densification. You’re smoking some strong stuff if you think densifications causes gentrification. Reality has always been gentrification leads to investment leads to densification.
- choeger 7y ago
  Yeah right, all these "culturally interesting" places just happen to be the dense run-down areas of cities by pure chance... Gentrification starts with some Avantgarde subculture(s) rallying in parts of a city that are cheap and dense enough to find enough followers. Later, followers with many expulse the old residents and push the prices. This does never happen in some rural area.
allendoerfer 7y ago
> Then these people should explain how all the Starbucks employees, the janitors, and the delivery guys that make their "culturally interesting" living possible should live and travel to work. They could simply argue, that these jobs would not exist without densification. Take the other extreme: I don't think Starbucks employees would earn more if everyone would live on firms miles apart from each other. Starbucks would be gone in this scenario. Everyone would be poorer, albeit equally poorer. So I would argue, you need to invest in public transportation and housing of different price ranges, possibly even built by the city itself, so threre are less incentives to defend legislation hindering new buildings, the actual reason why those workers are getting squeezed out. If you additionally try to focus on education and upward mobility you get a fair society.
matteuan 7y ago
lol. You forget that more density can increase supply and drive the price down for everyone. In your ideal world you would move high paying jobs into uninteresting areas, force these people to live in big houses (that they don't need), make them have a car (that they don't need) so they can bring some money for other jobs like janitors needing a car and a detached house?