6 ms·

DataHand

81 points by kick 7y ago

kick 7y ago
Previously, on Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7144044 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7144044 Very interesting 63-comment thread from 6 years ago.
- onychomys 7y ago
  I haven't followed Oculus stuff at all, but some of the comments there talk about how great Oculus keyboards will be. Anybody know if that's still the case?
- jodrellblank 7y ago
  2014? That dates how long I've had this Sidewinder X4 keyboard from my reply there, and roughly how long my experience with the Datahand and Plover has put me off buying another strange or unusual keyboard. Specifically the "Truly Ergonomic"/Cleave keyboard which came up in the last year or so for another round of production, and when I googled it found a review by Xah Lee [1] - who no longer uses it - and this guy I'm sure you'll recognise - https://www.sacrideo.us/not-your-typical-keyboard/ https://www.sacrideo.us/not-your-typical-keyboard/ - who seems to no longer use it, and both previously owned a Datahand too [2]. I wonder what the incidence of people continuing using their strange keyboards long term, vs. raving about them and then not using them after a few months, really is. And what happened to the guy who bought my Datahand and paid international shipping to get it. [1] http://xahlee.info/kbd/truly_ergo_keyboard_cleave.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/truly_ergo_keyboard_cleave.html [2] http://xahlee.info/kbd/datahand.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/datahand.html
melling 7y ago
There’s an open source DataHand project: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard At CES Samsung demo’ed a “keyboard” using the Selfie camera. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-51057261/ces-2020-samsung-s-invisible-keyboard-for-smartphones https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-51057261/ces-2020-sam... Once we use a camera to track our hands, we can invent other motions to augment a traditional keyboard. Also, this keyboard reminds me of DataHand: https://www.charachorder.com/ https://www.charachorder.com/
pgroves 7y ago
I wouldn't want this as a keyboard, I'd want one hanging from my right front pocket while looking at my phone with my left hand. It's the touchscreen interfaces that are terrible and need replacing, not the qwerty keyboard. The backlash against touchscreens has started with interior car controls and I'd like to see that spread everywhere else. (Yes I have RSI problems.)
- bangonkeyboard 7y ago
  Like this? https://www.tapwithus.com/ https://www.tapwithus.com/
- sp332 7y ago
  A character in Asimov's "I, Robot" (the book) had one of these. He even kept it in his pocket so he could type discreetly with his hand resting on his leg.
  - jolmg 7y ago
    Interesting. Was that only in the book? because I don't remember seeing that in the movie.
    - sp332 7y ago
      Yeah, the book is... quite different. It's a series of little stories told to the point-of-view character, a reporter, who has this device and records the stories as notes from an interview. The stories are basically illustrations of how great the Three Laws of Robotics are, which is not surprising since Asimov invented them himself.
      - frandroid 7y ago
        You mean how faillible they were? I recall many stories were about how someone died or had an accident because of overzealous or faulty interpretation of the laws... :)
blhack 7y ago
If you're reading this, you probably need make a majority of your income using your hands, and your ability to type things with them. Please get yourself a proper keyboard. They keyboard on your laptop, or even a good external one, is likely destroying your wrists. You're injuring yourself. I highly recommend the microsoft sculpt keyboard. It's cheap (for something that will help you protect your livlihood) and will make a substantial difference in the longevity of your wrists. Keyboards should be split. If you're not using a sculpt at the least, please change that. You'll thank yourself when you're older. (Currently typing this on a keyboard.io -- it's a lot more expensive than the sculpt, and a lot of that cost goes to the cool factor of it, imo. The sculpt is a great keyboard.)
- hokumguru 7y ago
  Keyboard.io keyboards are awesome, I'd also highly recommend checking out the Ergodox project [1] - it's an open source keyboard that's very similar. They offer all the materials you need to DIY, and you can also buy a pre-built one for a similar price to the keyboard.io ones (still very expensive however). [1]: https://www.ergodox.io https://www.ergodox.io
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    I saw a thread here about a month ago about these split keyboards and got a Centromere v2 (https://southpawdesign.net/products/centromere-plus-v2?variant=28998379765820 https://southpawdesign.net/products/centromere-plus-v2?varia...) and am typing this comment on it right now. I have various observations, which I'm going to write up in a post soon, but here's a summary: * It's amazing, I never want to use a non-QMK keyboard again. Just the fact that I can use layers and never have to take my hands away from the home row for anything is great. * Having my Caps Lock be a combination of Ctrl and Esc is great, but I've done this for years with my normal keyboard as well using xcape. * Having my Shift keys be parentheses and pressing both of them to activate Caps Lock is very convenient. * I don't have any problem switching to my laptop's keyboard at any time. I noticed I type "wrong" on normal keyboards, probably because I hold my wrists straight so I can only use 2-3 fingers on each hand to type. This means that I don't have much problem with wrist position, but the split keyboard feels a bit better. * Using a linear keyboard might have been a bit unnecessary, since I basically had to learn to touch-type properly again, starting at around 5 WPM (from 110 WPM normally). * I still haven't learned all the keyboard shortcuts, though I'm getting better. I don't remember more at this time, but I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone has.
reality_inspctr 7y ago
Bob Moog and John Eaton designed a multi touch synthesizer with a similar design vision. http://experimentalsynth.com/eaton-moog-multi-touch-keyboard/ http://experimentalsynth.com/eaton-moog-multi-touch-keyboard... From what I hear and having attempted to play one myself, it’s mentally taxing and hard to express artistically.
bigjimmyk3 7y ago
In the late 90s I had a co-worker who managed to wrangle one of these at our office. I think he tried it for a few weeks and then returned it. I solved most of my RSI problems at the time by switching to dvorak.
- arafa 7y ago
  I had a very similar experience with RSI and Dvorak. It was getting pretty bad and many years later, my wrists are holding up great. Maybe I'd have learned Colemak if I learned today, maybe not.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    I used Dvorak since 2005. After one look at Coleman / Colemak, and typing "he" (the second most common digraph in English) I'm sticking with Dvorak.
brandonmenc 7y ago
I used to own one of these. It was utterly unusable. Looked cool, though.
Birch-san 7y ago
There's a bunch of hackers trying to reverse-engineer and open-source the DataHand here (most recent reply was yesterday): https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0 I've had a couple of DataHands (and still keep one under my bed). It's a real marvel. For certain repetitive strain injuries: it's the only thing that helps. I'm using regular keyboards now, and I'm grateful that I can. But I look forward to the day when anybody who needs one can find one.
crtlaltdel 7y ago
i distinctly remember this product, not because i used one...but because my friends and i learned about it on compuserve! same night was my first use of mosaic. prior all my “internet” use was actually either muds via telnet or dialin bbs.
- crtlaltdel 7y ago
  to be clear, after we saw that we were all positive that Blade Runner was going to happen before we graduated middleschool...
pomatic 7y ago
cykey.co.uk is an interesting option - very easy to learn (I did it in an afternoon), but suffers from a couple of shortcomings: 1) there's no dedicated backspace key; 2) the characters regularly used by programmers are awkward to get at in some cases. Both of these issues could be addressed, and I'm experimenting with my own build which will use two rows of 5 keys, the upper row providing access to key layers + BS. PS. It's also IR, not bluetooth - but thats a trivial DIY fix.

81 points by kick 7y ago

kick 7y ago

Previously, on Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7144044 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7144044 Very interesting 63-comment thread from 6 years ago.

onychomys 7y ago
I haven't followed Oculus stuff at all, but some of the comments there talk about how great Oculus keyboards will be. Anybody know if that's still the case?
jodrellblank 7y ago
2014? That dates how long I've had this Sidewinder X4 keyboard from my reply there, and roughly how long my experience with the Datahand and Plover has put me off buying another strange or unusual keyboard. Specifically the "Truly Ergonomic"/Cleave keyboard which came up in the last year or so for another round of production, and when I googled it found a review by Xah Lee [1] - who no longer uses it - and this guy I'm sure you'll recognise - https://www.sacrideo.us/not-your-typical-keyboard/ https://www.sacrideo.us/not-your-typical-keyboard/ - who seems to no longer use it, and both previously owned a Datahand too [2]. I wonder what the incidence of people continuing using their strange keyboards long term, vs. raving about them and then not using them after a few months, really is. And what happened to the guy who bought my Datahand and paid international shipping to get it. [1] http://xahlee.info/kbd/truly_ergo_keyboard_cleave.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/truly_ergo_keyboard_cleave.html [2] http://xahlee.info/kbd/datahand.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/datahand.html

melling 7y ago

There’s an open source DataHand project: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard At CES Samsung demo’ed a “keyboard” using the Selfie camera. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-51057261/ces-2020-samsung-s-invisible-keyboard-for-smartphones https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-51057261/ces-2020-sam... Once we use a camera to track our hands, we can invent other motions to augment a traditional keyboard. Also, this keyboard reminds me of DataHand: https://www.charachorder.com/ https://www.charachorder.com/

pgroves 7y ago

I wouldn't want this as a keyboard, I'd want one hanging from my right front pocket while looking at my phone with my left hand. It's the touchscreen interfaces that are terrible and need replacing, not the qwerty keyboard. The backlash against touchscreens has started with interior car controls and I'd like to see that spread everywhere else. (Yes I have RSI problems.)

bangonkeyboard 7y ago
Like this? https://www.tapwithus.com/ https://www.tapwithus.com/
sp332 7y ago
A character in Asimov's "I, Robot" (the book) had one of these. He even kept it in his pocket so he could type discreetly with his hand resting on his leg.
- jolmg 7y ago
  Interesting. Was that only in the book? because I don't remember seeing that in the movie.
  - sp332 7y ago
    Yeah, the book is... quite different. It's a series of little stories told to the point-of-view character, a reporter, who has this device and records the stories as notes from an interview. The stories are basically illustrations of how great the Three Laws of Robotics are, which is not surprising since Asimov invented them himself.
    - frandroid 7y ago
      You mean how faillible they were? I recall many stories were about how someone died or had an accident because of overzealous or faulty interpretation of the laws... :)

blhack 7y ago

If you're reading this, you probably need make a majority of your income using your hands, and your ability to type things with them. Please get yourself a proper keyboard. They keyboard on your laptop, or even a good external one, is likely destroying your wrists. You're injuring yourself. I highly recommend the microsoft sculpt keyboard. It's cheap (for something that will help you protect your livlihood) and will make a substantial difference in the longevity of your wrists. Keyboards should be split. If you're not using a sculpt at the least, please change that. You'll thank yourself when you're older. (Currently typing this on a keyboard.io -- it's a lot more expensive than the sculpt, and a lot of that cost goes to the cool factor of it, imo. The sculpt is a great keyboard.)

hokumguru 7y ago
Keyboard.io keyboards are awesome, I'd also highly recommend checking out the Ergodox project [1] - it's an open source keyboard that's very similar. They offer all the materials you need to DIY, and you can also buy a pre-built one for a similar price to the keyboard.io ones (still very expensive however). [1]: https://www.ergodox.io https://www.ergodox.io
- StavrosK 7y ago
  I saw a thread here about a month ago about these split keyboards and got a Centromere v2 (https://southpawdesign.net/products/centromere-plus-v2?variant=28998379765820 https://southpawdesign.net/products/centromere-plus-v2?varia...) and am typing this comment on it right now. I have various observations, which I'm going to write up in a post soon, but here's a summary: * It's amazing, I never want to use a non-QMK keyboard again. Just the fact that I can use layers and never have to take my hands away from the home row for anything is great. * Having my Caps Lock be a combination of Ctrl and Esc is great, but I've done this for years with my normal keyboard as well using xcape. * Having my Shift keys be parentheses and pressing both of them to activate Caps Lock is very convenient. * I don't have any problem switching to my laptop's keyboard at any time. I noticed I type "wrong" on normal keyboards, probably because I hold my wrists straight so I can only use 2-3 fingers on each hand to type. This means that I don't have much problem with wrist position, but the split keyboard feels a bit better. * Using a linear keyboard might have been a bit unnecessary, since I basically had to learn to touch-type properly again, starting at around 5 WPM (from 110 WPM normally). * I still haven't learned all the keyboard shortcuts, though I'm getting better. I don't remember more at this time, but I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone has.

reality_inspctr 7y ago

Bob Moog and John Eaton designed a multi touch synthesizer with a similar design vision. http://experimentalsynth.com/eaton-moog-multi-touch-keyboard/ http://experimentalsynth.com/eaton-moog-multi-touch-keyboard... From what I hear and having attempted to play one myself, it’s mentally taxing and hard to express artistically.

bigjimmyk3 7y ago

In the late 90s I had a co-worker who managed to wrangle one of these at our office. I think he tried it for a few weeks and then returned it. I solved most of my RSI problems at the time by switching to dvorak.

arafa 7y ago
I had a very similar experience with RSI and Dvorak. It was getting pretty bad and many years later, my wrists are holding up great. Maybe I'd have learned Colemak if I learned today, maybe not.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  I used Dvorak since 2005. After one look at Coleman / Colemak, and typing "he" (the second most common digraph in English) I'm sticking with Dvorak.

brandonmenc 7y ago

I used to own one of these. It was utterly unusable. Looked cool, though.

Birch-san 7y ago

There's a bunch of hackers trying to reverse-engineer and open-source the DataHand here (most recent reply was yesterday): https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0 I've had a couple of DataHands (and still keep one under my bed). It's a real marvel. For certain repetitive strain injuries: it's the only thing that helps. I'm using regular keyboards now, and I'm grateful that I can. But I look forward to the day when anybody who needs one can find one.

crtlaltdel 7y ago

i distinctly remember this product, not because i used one...but because my friends and i learned about it on compuserve! same night was my first use of mosaic. prior all my “internet” use was actually either muds via telnet or dialin bbs.

crtlaltdel 7y ago
to be clear, after we saw that we were all positive that Blade Runner was going to happen before we graduated middleschool...

pomatic 7y ago

cykey.co.uk is an interesting option - very easy to learn (I did it in an afternoon), but suffers from a couple of shortcomings: 1) there's no dedicated backspace key; 2) the characters regularly used by programmers are awkward to get at in some cases. Both of these issues could be addressed, and I'm experimenting with my own build which will use two rows of 5 keys, the upper row providing access to key layers + BS. PS. It's also IR, not bluetooth - but thats a trivial DIY fix.