3 ms·

Why are we instantly siding with the accuser who has an easily fake-able photo? No longer innocent until proven guilty?

by slenk 7y ago

alpaca128 7y ago
Because this is believable based on recent years filled with all kinds of quality issues, from counterfeit products shipped side-by-side with genuine ones up to Amazon doing absolutely nothing against various shameless review tricks (for example I haven't even found a way to report such cases anywhere, so to me they're clearly not even interested in doing anything - EDIT: what is visible is a button for me as a private, logged in customer where I can setup a seller account right between product description and automated suggestions...no report button though). May this be fake? Sure. It's just not very likely based on history.
cgriswald 7y ago
I received a “new” product I bought on Amazon that had something on it that could have either been a lubricant for the product or someone’s food. The entire product was very greasy and there was other weirdness that lead me to believe what I received was someone else’s return. I sent it back and ordered directly from the manufacturer. When I opened the package it only confirmed my suspicions. No greasy stuff. Paperwork that was missing in the Amazon shipment. Protective packing. Etc. My conclusion was that the Amazon product was returned and no one even looked at it before taping it up and sending it out to me. Maybe the customer lied to them about why they were returning it. I don’t know. Whatever it was, it certainly means I’m not dismissing this customer’s story out of hand.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Iron products are supposed to be shipped with a mineral oil coating.
  - cgriswald 7y ago
    I assume you're offering this as a counterpoint, suggesting I might have just been mistaken about it being a return? 1. It wasn't mineral oil. It lacked the feel, appearance, and odor of mineral oil. The substance was buttery and it would not surprise me if it had been butter. 2. The greasiness wasn't the only weirdness with the device. 3. The device straight from the manufacturer lacked the greasiness and other weirdness, but was otherwise clearly the same product with the same packaging (except some extra bits the one through Amazon didn't have).
kick 7y ago
Companies are not and never will be people, and hearsay is necessary for markets to work. "Innocent until proven guilty" only makes sense with people; with companies, it should be "Innocent unless there's reasonable suspicion to assume literally anything else," in most cases. On top of that, this isn't an uncommon circumstance: the counterfeit problem on Amazon brings up 1,812 results with a completely unsophisticated search of HN; there are a lot of different variations of that, it's probably half-again that number.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  There's no question of whether you have the right to assume guilt. It's only that, logically, if you rush to judgment on anything, you don't in fact care about the issue that much. You can't convince someone rational that you both do and don't concern yourself with it.
slenk 7y ago
y'all are right, i am wrong

Why are we instantly siding with the accuser who has an easily fake-able photo? No longer innocent until proven guilty?

by slenk 7y ago

Why are we instantly siding with the accuser who has an easily fake-able photo? No longer innocent until proven guilty?

Because this is believable based on recent years filled with all kinds of quality issues, from counterfeit products shipped side-by-side with genuine ones up to Amazon doing absolutely nothing against various shameless review tricks (for example I haven't even found a way to report such cases anywhere, so to me they're clearly not even interested in doing anything - EDIT: what is visible is a button for me as a private, logged in customer where I can setup a seller account right between product description and automated suggestions...no report button though). May this be fake? Sure. It's just not very likely based on history.

cgriswald 7y ago

I received a “new” product I bought on Amazon that had something on it that could have either been a lubricant for the product or someone’s food. The entire product was very greasy and there was other weirdness that lead me to believe what I received was someone else’s return. I sent it back and ordered directly from the manufacturer. When I opened the package it only confirmed my suspicions. No greasy stuff. Paperwork that was missing in the Amazon shipment. Protective packing. Etc. My conclusion was that the Amazon product was returned and no one even looked at it before taping it up and sending it out to me. Maybe the customer lied to them about why they were returning it. I don’t know. Whatever it was, it certainly means I’m not dismissing this customer’s story out of hand.

lonelappde 7y ago
Iron products are supposed to be shipped with a mineral oil coating.
- cgriswald 7y ago
  I assume you're offering this as a counterpoint, suggesting I might have just been mistaken about it being a return? 1. It wasn't mineral oil. It lacked the feel, appearance, and odor of mineral oil. The substance was buttery and it would not surprise me if it had been butter. 2. The greasiness wasn't the only weirdness with the device. 3. The device straight from the manufacturer lacked the greasiness and other weirdness, but was otherwise clearly the same product with the same packaging (except some extra bits the one through Amazon didn't have).

kick 7y ago

Companies are not and never will be people, and hearsay is necessary for markets to work. "Innocent until proven guilty" only makes sense with people; with companies, it should be "Innocent unless there's reasonable suspicion to assume literally anything else," in most cases. On top of that, this isn't an uncommon circumstance: the counterfeit problem on Amazon brings up 1,812 results with a completely unsophisticated search of HN; there are a lot of different variations of that, it's probably half-again that number.

perl4ever 7y ago
There's no question of whether you have the right to assume guilt. It's only that, logically, if you rush to judgment on anything, you don't in fact care about the issue that much. You can't convince someone rational that you both do and don't concern yourself with it.

slenk 7y ago

y'all are right, i am wrong