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You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength. - Marcus Aurelius

pmoriarty 7y ago
I do not believe in freedom of the will. Schopenhauer's words: "Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills" accompany me in all situations throughout my life. - Albert Einstein
- pwdisswordfish2 7y ago
  Quoting is for pretentious people who are incapable of substantiating their opinions otherwise - myself
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - buboard 7y ago
    When a company moves an inch, remember it was you - Frederic Lohard
  - speedplane 7y ago
    > Quoting is for pretentious people who are incapable of substantiating their opinions otherwise - myself This quote is substantiated. - myself
- dan00 7y ago
  I don’t think that is the point of Aurelius. It’s not about changing your will, but about realising what is in your control, and taking responsibility where you have control.
  - pmoriarty 7y ago
    How can you have responsibility if you don't have free will? And how can you have control if you don't have free will?
    - aurosul 7y ago
      the answer to your questions is in the title "Nothing Changes Until You Do"
      - kerkeslager 7y ago
        Thinking that's an answer shows that you don't understand the question.
        aurosul 7y ago
        You seems like a person who knows a lot about stuff. Could you be so kind to teach me? p.s.: I have a master degree in philosophy.
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
      > How can you have responsibility if you don't have free will? Responsibility, and its sister concept blame, are distractions from solving problems. Responsibility and blame put the focus on finding who was responsible for the problem and blaming them, which then leads to the logical conclusion of punishing them. But this so rarely actually solves the problem. When someone makes a mistake, it's usually not intentional, and often it's a failure of training. Sure, there are extremes: maybe the person shows up drunk to work and needs to be fired--but that's still not about responsibility and blame, it's just recognizing that people who show up drunk to work can't make good decisions. It's a matter of facts and mechanics, not of responsibility and blame. > And how can you have control if you don't have free will? This is a question without implications. Consider the possibilities: 1. Let's say free will exists. We go along our merry way, exerting our control in everyday situations. 2. Let's say free will doesn't exist. We go along our merry way, exerting no control on any situation, but we perceive ourselves as exerting control over everyday situations. Just try your best, maybe that won't have any effect because you don't have free will, but maybe it will. I actually tend with Einstein on this: every system I've been able to gain a firm understanding of has had deterministic causality, and the systems where free will could be hiding (i.e. quantum mechanics) don't appear to actually have any connection to the systems that determine human action--that is to say, I don't think free will exists. But so what? It's sort of an irrelevant conclusion.
thrwaway69 7y ago
Though, he or someone else with Aurelius in their name wrote a guide telling self to suicide if you lose control over your mind and was rather obsessive about it. I think quotes should be without mentioning the person. If the quote is a valid assertion then it will prove itself otherwise it tends to rely on the 'who' for its validity which lacks context and is decisive in nature. 0] https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/14/how-the-world-butchered-benjamin-franklins-quote-on-liberty-vs-security/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/14/how-the-world-butchered-be...
- buboard 7y ago
  the techcrunch article claims the quote was "not about liberty but taxes" and even links to the Franklin quote, which is , oddly , about liberty: > "In fine, we have the most sensible concern for the poor distressed inhabitants of the frontiers. We have taken every step in our power, consistent with the just rights of the freemen of Pennsylvania, for their relief, and we have reason to believe, that in the midst of their distresses they themselves do not wish us to go farther. Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Such as were inclined to defend themselves, but unable to purchase arms and ammunition have, as we are informed, been supplied with both, ... https://books.google.gr/books/content?id=HptPAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA99&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U0rpXMXbiIv-TbaLZ_pio1PRL2RHA&ci=475%2C323%2C430%2C623&edge=0 https://books.google.gr/books/content?id=HptPAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA9...
  - thrwaway69 7y ago
    Oh didn't see that but my point was simply to avoid labelling quote with the person. HN and many other places use that quote to push pro privacy debate in a really different dynamics and world than author of that quote lived in. He couldn't have seen such malicious software taking over the world. While the quote on its may be a good ideal. You can't imply author would take similar stance to software and privacy in drastic different settings where organization argue that to protect the liberty of state and freedom of its people, they require trampling on privacy of others or its own citizens. Humans by nature are hypocritical and contextual. Assuming that is important in validating the position one might take. In the absence of evidence, just rely on the essence of words.
kerkeslager 7y ago
I agree with Aurelius that we should focus on that which is in our control, but I disagree with where to draw that line: anyone who meditates runs quickly into the limitations of our power over our minds. I'd say that what we have is power over our actions, and some of our thoughts and feelings. But Aurelius' larger point, that we should focus on that which we have power over, is key to effective focus and emotional stability.
guscost 7y ago
God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference. - Reinhold Niebuhr

I do not believe in freedom of the will. Schopenhauer's words: "Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills" accompany me in all situations throughout my life. - Albert Einstein

pwdisswordfish2 7y ago
Quoting is for pretentious people who are incapable of substantiating their opinions otherwise - myself
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- buboard 7y ago
  When a company moves an inch, remember it was you - Frederic Lohard
- speedplane 7y ago
  > Quoting is for pretentious people who are incapable of substantiating their opinions otherwise - myself This quote is substantiated. - myself
dan00 7y ago
I don’t think that is the point of Aurelius. It’s not about changing your will, but about realising what is in your control, and taking responsibility where you have control.
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  How can you have responsibility if you don't have free will? And how can you have control if you don't have free will?
  - aurosul 7y ago
    the answer to your questions is in the title "Nothing Changes Until You Do"
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
      Thinking that's an answer shows that you don't understand the question.
      - aurosul 7y ago
        You seems like a person who knows a lot about stuff. Could you be so kind to teach me? p.s.: I have a master degree in philosophy.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    > How can you have responsibility if you don't have free will? Responsibility, and its sister concept blame, are distractions from solving problems. Responsibility and blame put the focus on finding who was responsible for the problem and blaming them, which then leads to the logical conclusion of punishing them. But this so rarely actually solves the problem. When someone makes a mistake, it's usually not intentional, and often it's a failure of training. Sure, there are extremes: maybe the person shows up drunk to work and needs to be fired--but that's still not about responsibility and blame, it's just recognizing that people who show up drunk to work can't make good decisions. It's a matter of facts and mechanics, not of responsibility and blame. > And how can you have control if you don't have free will? This is a question without implications. Consider the possibilities: 1. Let's say free will exists. We go along our merry way, exerting our control in everyday situations. 2. Let's say free will doesn't exist. We go along our merry way, exerting no control on any situation, but we perceive ourselves as exerting control over everyday situations. Just try your best, maybe that won't have any effect because you don't have free will, but maybe it will. I actually tend with Einstein on this: every system I've been able to gain a firm understanding of has had deterministic causality, and the systems where free will could be hiding (i.e. quantum mechanics) don't appear to actually have any connection to the systems that determine human action--that is to say, I don't think free will exists. But so what? It's sort of an irrelevant conclusion.

thrwaway69 7y ago

Though, he or someone else with Aurelius in their name wrote a guide telling self to suicide if you lose control over your mind and was rather obsessive about it. I think quotes should be without mentioning the person. If the quote is a valid assertion then it will prove itself otherwise it tends to rely on the 'who' for its validity which lacks context and is decisive in nature. 0] https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/14/how-the-world-butchered-benjamin-franklins-quote-on-liberty-vs-security/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/14/how-the-world-butchered-be...

buboard 7y ago
the techcrunch article claims the quote was "not about liberty but taxes" and even links to the Franklin quote, which is , oddly , about liberty: > "In fine, we have the most sensible concern for the poor distressed inhabitants of the frontiers. We have taken every step in our power, consistent with the just rights of the freemen of Pennsylvania, for their relief, and we have reason to believe, that in the midst of their distresses they themselves do not wish us to go farther. Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Such as were inclined to defend themselves, but unable to purchase arms and ammunition have, as we are informed, been supplied with both, ... https://books.google.gr/books/content?id=HptPAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA99&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U0rpXMXbiIv-TbaLZ_pio1PRL2RHA&ci=475%2C323%2C430%2C623&edge=0 https://books.google.gr/books/content?id=HptPAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA9...
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  Oh didn't see that but my point was simply to avoid labelling quote with the person. HN and many other places use that quote to push pro privacy debate in a really different dynamics and world than author of that quote lived in. He couldn't have seen such malicious software taking over the world. While the quote on its may be a good ideal. You can't imply author would take similar stance to software and privacy in drastic different settings where organization argue that to protect the liberty of state and freedom of its people, they require trampling on privacy of others or its own citizens. Humans by nature are hypocritical and contextual. Assuming that is important in validating the position one might take. In the absence of evidence, just rely on the essence of words.

kerkeslager 7y ago

I agree with Aurelius that we should focus on that which is in our control, but I disagree with where to draw that line: anyone who meditates runs quickly into the limitations of our power over our minds. I'd say that what we have is power over our actions, and some of our thoughts and feelings. But Aurelius' larger point, that we should focus on that which we have power over, is key to effective focus and emotional stability.

guscost 7y ago

God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference. - Reinhold Niebuhr