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IANAL, but in the UK, unless you have a contract that specifically says otherwise, yes. On the other hand, if the outside work provably used no employer resour

IANAL, but in the UK, unless you have a contract that specifically says otherwise, yes. On the other hand, if the outside work provably used no employer resources, and provably is unrelated, then you can probably defend yourself against an action. But you really, really don't want to depend on that. Get it sorted up front. Get an explicit agreement with your employer that non-competing work done without their resources and without impacting your work, belongs to you. Otherwise it's murky and dangerous.

rlpb 16y ago
> and provably is unrelated I've been told by a professional that "unrelated" generally means work that might be in a different profession - and that to a court, "computers" could be considered a single profession in this sort of case. Work done in the field of "computers" outside of work, and you work for a "computer" firm? Related. Ergo your employer owns the IP. So yeah, don't depend on it. At all. This is the advice I was given when verifying that I had the IP relating to my startup. To avoid any doubt, I got the IP signed over with a contract I paid a solicitor for. This cost money, but more importantly it helped that my former employer was willing to do this. Thinking about it, this default is the sort of thing that stifles innovation. If the Government wants to promote innovation, perhaps they should change the rules. Edited to add: I'm in the UK.
ig1 16y ago
UK legislation will only give an employer copyright if the work was created "in the course of his employment" (Chapter I section 11(2) of the act). So essentially if it's part of the job. But I agree it's better to just get it agreed upfront.
moonwalker 16y ago
IANAL, this is also for UK. I as well was employed in the UK last year and had my contract checked by a lawyer. The contract contained few vague clauses regarding IP discovered during the term of the employment and some non competes with any business of the company or of the group companies. The lawyer confirmed the only safe route would be to have an explicit agreement providing me IP ownership and entrepreneurial freedom signed by the company. Then it depends what your relation is to the company. Do you want to tell them you have more ambitions than being a loyal employee ? If your bosses are a 'general' management and not a founder etc., I very much doubt you will achieve anything positive yourself. I believe these contracts are a norm here from what I heard as well. (I quit in the end before starting my venture).
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Silhouette 16y ago
> IANAL, but in the UK, unless you have a contract that specifically says otherwise, yes. Cite, please. Your claim directly contradicts formal advice I have received from multiple employment law specialists in the UK, on several occasions over the past few years, most recently last year. You're right that it's always better to be clear in the contract anyway, though.
glenjamin 16y ago
I'm, in the UK. My employment contract is quite specific on these things. The company owns any IP I produce, and I'm forbidden from working on side projects... without permission from my manager. So given permission (in writing) to start a project, it'd then be all mine. Agreeing these sorts of things prior to spending time/money on your own stuff should avoid most of these legal haggles.

rlpb 16y ago

> and provably is unrelated I've been told by a professional that "unrelated" generally means work that might be in a different profession - and that to a court, "computers" could be considered a single profession in this sort of case. Work done in the field of "computers" outside of work, and you work for a "computer" firm? Related. Ergo your employer owns the IP. So yeah, don't depend on it. At all. This is the advice I was given when verifying that I had the IP relating to my startup. To avoid any doubt, I got the IP signed over with a contract I paid a solicitor for. This cost money, but more importantly it helped that my former employer was willing to do this. Thinking about it, this default is the sort of thing that stifles innovation. If the Government wants to promote innovation, perhaps they should change the rules. Edited to add: I'm in the UK.

ig1 16y ago

UK legislation will only give an employer copyright if the work was created "in the course of his employment" (Chapter I section 11(2) of the act). So essentially if it's part of the job. But I agree it's better to just get it agreed upfront.

moonwalker 16y ago

IANAL, this is also for UK. I as well was employed in the UK last year and had my contract checked by a lawyer. The contract contained few vague clauses regarding IP discovered during the term of the employment and some non competes with any business of the company or of the group companies. The lawyer confirmed the only safe route would be to have an explicit agreement providing me IP ownership and entrepreneurial freedom signed by the company. Then it depends what your relation is to the company. Do you want to tell them you have more ambitions than being a loyal employee ? If your bosses are a 'general' management and not a founder etc., I very much doubt you will achieve anything positive yourself. I believe these contracts are a norm here from what I heard as well. (I quit in the end before starting my venture).

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Silhouette 16y ago

> IANAL, but in the UK, unless you have a contract that specifically says otherwise, yes. Cite, please. Your claim directly contradicts formal advice I have received from multiple employment law specialists in the UK, on several occasions over the past few years, most recently last year. You're right that it's always better to be clear in the contract anyway, though.

glenjamin 16y ago

I'm, in the UK. My employment contract is quite specific on these things. The company owns any IP I produce, and I'm forbidden from working on side projects... without permission from my manager. So given permission (in writing) to start a project, it'd then be all mine. Agreeing these sorts of things prior to spending time/money on your own stuff should avoid most of these legal haggles.