4 ms·

Can you talk more about the state laws? Are they not discouraging homelessness or are they too weak on petty crime?

by prawn 7y ago

Izkata 7y ago
The second one, as far as I'm aware (not from California): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  Prop 47 is a ridiculous red herring. It raised the threshold for felony [whatever] to $950. To my knowledge that threshold hadn't changed in my lifetime, which is to say that the intent of the original statutes was that there should be a significant barrier to a felony charge. Meanwhile a misdemeanor can be punished by up to 364 days in jail. However police are generally unwilling to enforce misdemeanor statutes. A couple weeks ago one of my cars was vandalized (hood was etched). The last time I talked to a body shop about getting a hood repainted I was told to expect to pay at least $600-$800. I'd expect by now the total cost will be over a grand. For all of the whining about Prop 47 (not from you specifically), do you really think the vandal was cognizant of the threshold for felony vandalism? Do you really think that they were trying to create just under $950 worth of damage? I sure don't. Hell, I don't even think that person deserves to spend in excess of a year in jail over this. Prop 47 only encourages crime because we've moved into "police won't enforce the laws on the books" territory.
  - cobookman 7y ago
    It's not just prop 47 or the cops. The new DA just refused to prosecute a murder. https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/SF-District-Attorney-declines-to-file-murder-14978176.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/SF-District-Attorn...
  - pandaman 7y ago
    Not enough information about your vandal to speculate on his or her motives but there are reports of gangs of shoplifters raiding shops and taking less than $950 worth of goods each e.g. https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/14/shoplifting-california-prop-47-reduced-penalties/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/14/shoplifting-cal...
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      Oh it was one of my neighbors, not a gang. ~$800 was the quote for a car with cheaper paint. This car has metallic paint (more expensive and more difficult to respray well), I'd be very surprised if I could find a competent shop to fix it for less than a grand. https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/crime-penalties/petty-theft-california-penalties-defense https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-def... https://www.shouselaw.com/burglary.html#2.3 https://www.shouselaw.com/burglary.html#2.3 I'm not a lawyer so here's how I interpreted these lawyers: Petty theft is up to six months in jail + up to $1,000 fine. Prop 47 added a misdemeanor shoplifting statute with a max. incarceration to one year. Previously this was considered burglary where a defendant could be charged with either a misdemeanor (up to a year in jail) or felony (up to three or so years). The existing burglary statute (which otherwise covered what is now called shoplifting) carries a sentence of up to one year in jail (misdemeanor) or more (felony). The gangs taking less than $950 worth of goods are taking advantage of police apathy. So, sure, maybe Prop 47 resulted in an increase in shoplifting/burglary. However, if the police were to see these things through repeat criminals would still be subject to the same felony statue as before.
      - pandaman 7y ago
        I am not a lawyer too but, from what I know, the police do not prosecute crimes. They bring their reports to a DA who decides to charge or not. And the DAs, being an elected official and seeing what is the public opinion of these crimes from the prop 47, do not want to charge them. And if the DAs are not going to charge these crimes anyways there is no point for the police to catch the criminals.
ttwwmm 7y ago
Here's some background on homelessness: https://calmatters.org/explainers/californias-homelessness-crisis-explained/ https://calmatters.org/explainers/californias-homelessness-c... I don't expect that you intended it this way, but be aware that the way you've phrased the question is likely to offend --- homelessness is complex and most homeless folks aren't criminals.
- prawn 7y ago
  I certainly didn't mean to intend, only wondered if the parent intended to conflate the two issues and was trying to find out. I find the issue of homelessness a fascinating puzzle of many issues and wonder how it might be solved. That link looks good - cheers.

Can you talk more about the state laws? Are they not discouraging homelessness or are they too weak on petty crime?

by prawn 7y ago

Can you talk more about the state laws? Are they not discouraging homelessness or are they too weak on petty crime?

The second one, as far as I'm aware (not from California): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47

inferiorhuman 7y ago
Prop 47 is a ridiculous red herring. It raised the threshold for felony [whatever] to $950. To my knowledge that threshold hadn't changed in my lifetime, which is to say that the intent of the original statutes was that there should be a significant barrier to a felony charge. Meanwhile a misdemeanor can be punished by up to 364 days in jail. However police are generally unwilling to enforce misdemeanor statutes. A couple weeks ago one of my cars was vandalized (hood was etched). The last time I talked to a body shop about getting a hood repainted I was told to expect to pay at least $600-$800. I'd expect by now the total cost will be over a grand. For all of the whining about Prop 47 (not from you specifically), do you really think the vandal was cognizant of the threshold for felony vandalism? Do you really think that they were trying to create just under $950 worth of damage? I sure don't. Hell, I don't even think that person deserves to spend in excess of a year in jail over this. Prop 47 only encourages crime because we've moved into "police won't enforce the laws on the books" territory.
- cobookman 7y ago
  It's not just prop 47 or the cops. The new DA just refused to prosecute a murder. https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/SF-District-Attorney-declines-to-file-murder-14978176.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/SF-District-Attorn...
- pandaman 7y ago
  Not enough information about your vandal to speculate on his or her motives but there are reports of gangs of shoplifters raiding shops and taking less than $950 worth of goods each e.g. https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/14/shoplifting-california-prop-47-reduced-penalties/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/14/shoplifting-cal...
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    Oh it was one of my neighbors, not a gang. ~$800 was the quote for a car with cheaper paint. This car has metallic paint (more expensive and more difficult to respray well), I'd be very surprised if I could find a competent shop to fix it for less than a grand. https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/crime-penalties/petty-theft-california-penalties-defense https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-def... https://www.shouselaw.com/burglary.html#2.3 https://www.shouselaw.com/burglary.html#2.3 I'm not a lawyer so here's how I interpreted these lawyers: Petty theft is up to six months in jail + up to $1,000 fine. Prop 47 added a misdemeanor shoplifting statute with a max. incarceration to one year. Previously this was considered burglary where a defendant could be charged with either a misdemeanor (up to a year in jail) or felony (up to three or so years). The existing burglary statute (which otherwise covered what is now called shoplifting) carries a sentence of up to one year in jail (misdemeanor) or more (felony). The gangs taking less than $950 worth of goods are taking advantage of police apathy. So, sure, maybe Prop 47 resulted in an increase in shoplifting/burglary. However, if the police were to see these things through repeat criminals would still be subject to the same felony statue as before.
    - pandaman 7y ago
      I am not a lawyer too but, from what I know, the police do not prosecute crimes. They bring their reports to a DA who decides to charge or not. And the DAs, being an elected official and seeing what is the public opinion of these crimes from the prop 47, do not want to charge them. And if the DAs are not going to charge these crimes anyways there is no point for the police to catch the criminals.

ttwwmm 7y ago

Here's some background on homelessness: https://calmatters.org/explainers/californias-homelessness-crisis-explained/ https://calmatters.org/explainers/californias-homelessness-c... I don't expect that you intended it this way, but be aware that the way you've phrased the question is likely to offend --- homelessness is complex and most homeless folks aren't criminals.

prawn 7y ago
I certainly didn't mean to intend, only wondered if the parent intended to conflate the two issues and was trying to find out. I find the issue of homelessness a fascinating puzzle of many issues and wonder how it might be solved. That link looks good - cheers.