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Because countries where women are dominated by men both legally and culturally, have higher rates of birth, crime, poverty, etc., than countries where women hav

Because countries where women are dominated by men both legally and culturally, have higher rates of birth, crime, poverty, etc., than countries where women have a level of social mobility similar to men.

commandlinefan 7y ago
Actually, no, it’s the other way around - in less egalitarian countries, women are more likely to pursue science and technical careers.
- Proziam 7y ago
  I find it shocking that people so boldly cite the opposite as being true. I can't seem to discern a benefit to so confidently push a belief that doesn't hold up in reality. It's not as if the Nordic countries aren't doing pretty well, so why are people so resistant to the reality? It's perfectly understandable that less economic and social pressures lead to people choosing things they actually want. It just happens to be that there's a notable difference in women's choices under those circumstances. It certainly seems like there's substantial misinformation out there these days.
  - jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
    For the women I know, working at a sausagefest like comp/sci or engineering can be really unpleasant, and I'm sure it sucks 10x for women who believe they have to work STEM in order to gain the autonomy they need. My sister lived two years in an all male house with two male landlords and she almost lost her damn mind: the landlords kept trying to set her up with her creepy neighbor, who himself was trading sexual favors with the landlords in order to get out of cleaning, which my sister did more than anybody. The landlords were always giving special treats and priveleges to "their boys", even the ones who didnt pay rent on time. Obviously, #notallmen, obviously. It is unsurprising to me that the biggest female STEM recruitment is happening in places where women have no other way to get the autonomy they need.
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  When women have equal opportunity for education and employment, that mobility is correlated with reduced population growth, reduction in violence, better health outcomes. I don't actually care how likely women are to pursue stem careers, or about mathematical diverseness. I am primarily interested in drinkable water, breathable air, edible food, peace, etc. Evidence suggests that sexist gatekeeping ultimately runs counter to my own interests.
PeterisP 7y ago
Current patriarchal, near-totalitarian societies have huge percentages of women going into STEM because for an ambitious, smart, strong woman in that environment it's one of the few paths to independence and status obtained through a well paying STEM job. Countries that are more egalitarian and have more social mobility have STEM percentages that are decreasing as the same society becomes more egalitarian over time because the women have other options, and they choose to take them.
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  I am uninterested in the actual composition of STEM. I want social mobility for women because such is correlated with population growth reduction, better health and social outcomes.

commandlinefan 7y ago

Actually, no, it’s the other way around - in less egalitarian countries, women are more likely to pursue science and technical careers.

Proziam 7y ago
I find it shocking that people so boldly cite the opposite as being true. I can't seem to discern a benefit to so confidently push a belief that doesn't hold up in reality. It's not as if the Nordic countries aren't doing pretty well, so why are people so resistant to the reality? It's perfectly understandable that less economic and social pressures lead to people choosing things they actually want. It just happens to be that there's a notable difference in women's choices under those circumstances. It certainly seems like there's substantial misinformation out there these days.
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  For the women I know, working at a sausagefest like comp/sci or engineering can be really unpleasant, and I'm sure it sucks 10x for women who believe they have to work STEM in order to gain the autonomy they need. My sister lived two years in an all male house with two male landlords and she almost lost her damn mind: the landlords kept trying to set her up with her creepy neighbor, who himself was trading sexual favors with the landlords in order to get out of cleaning, which my sister did more than anybody. The landlords were always giving special treats and priveleges to "their boys", even the ones who didnt pay rent on time. Obviously, #notallmen, obviously. It is unsurprising to me that the biggest female STEM recruitment is happening in places where women have no other way to get the autonomy they need.
jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
When women have equal opportunity for education and employment, that mobility is correlated with reduced population growth, reduction in violence, better health outcomes. I don't actually care how likely women are to pursue stem careers, or about mathematical diverseness. I am primarily interested in drinkable water, breathable air, edible food, peace, etc. Evidence suggests that sexist gatekeeping ultimately runs counter to my own interests.

PeterisP 7y ago

Current patriarchal, near-totalitarian societies have huge percentages of women going into STEM because for an ambitious, smart, strong woman in that environment it's one of the few paths to independence and status obtained through a well paying STEM job. Countries that are more egalitarian and have more social mobility have STEM percentages that are decreasing as the same society becomes more egalitarian over time because the women have other options, and they choose to take them.

jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
I am uninterested in the actual composition of STEM. I want social mobility for women because such is correlated with population growth reduction, better health and social outcomes.