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I got a pair of this for Christmas and just recently put them in my ears for the first time having no idea they had noise cancellation built in. For a second I

I got a pair of this for Christmas and just recently put them in my ears for the first time having no idea they had noise cancellation built in. For a second I thought I broke my ears because everything was dead silent! I'm surprised how well the noise cancellation works, way better than the ancient Sony headphones I had. Is there an objective way to measure this so someone would know it's getting worse? Seems like it would be really subjective if not.

jaryd 7y ago
Thanks for the comment. I don't know the answer but came here to ask this too. It seems really useful to be able to objectively measure the efficacy of noise cancellation across diverse products.
- augbog 7y ago
  Only way really is to find someone who didn't firmware update yet and compare them before and after.
mckeed 7y ago
I wonder if you could put them in one of these microphones with anatomical ears: https://3diosound.com https://3diosound.com
mandelbrotwurst 7y ago
You could build an "ear" of sorts - i.e. a box creating a seal around the buds with a microphone in it and measure how much ambient noise it picks up.
- sethhochberg 7y ago
  With products like this, you really do want an actual anatomical ear for measurement - often they rely a lot on the rough physics of the ear itself to work right. There is a whole niche corner of the microphone industry for "dummy head microphones" that are basically an an actual model of a head with detailed ears, and are really useful for measuring both how things sound to a human in an open environment and getting measurements of devices like headphones that need a head + ear to work.
the_pwner224 7y ago
You can measure the dB of noise reduction on a headphone test bench. Under the Isolation section here they have leakage (sound spilling out to others) and isolation (noise canceling). Keep in mind that dB is nonlinear, and the test results depend a lot on how well the testers fit the headphones on the head - so I would only consider these to be approximations within 1-3 dB of the real value. https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare Rtings hasn't (yet) done a pre/post update comparison for the AirPods but you could use the same methodology. The HyperX Cloud II are a good (isolation/leakage-wise) set of 'normal' over-ear headphones which you can compare the numbers to if you've never used ANC and are curious. And the Sony WH-1000XM3 / Bose 700 are the leading noises canceling over-ear headphones.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- hashhar 7y ago
  The Sony XM3s are an awesome piece of hardware. The noise cancellation is top notch, the ear cups are the most comfortable and large enough to not put too much pressure (specially for folks like me who wear specs) and are extremely lightweight with ample cushioning. Best 25k INR (was around 30% of my monthly salary == monthly rent) I ever spent.
  - bori5 7y ago
    Could only dream to have rent that is 500$! ;)
    - hashhar 7y ago
      But that rent is 30% of my monthly salary. Between the rent, expenses, investments and credit card bills, I can't save more than $150 per month. And that rent is for a single room in a 4 room apartment. :( The rent for the entire apartment equals my monthly salary.
      - 7y ago
xoa 7y ago
>Is there an objective way to measure this so someone would know it's getting worse? In principle it should be possible to do standardized testing of any set of headphones or earphones with a properly designed Dummy Head, similar or the same to what is used for things like generating binaural audio recordings. There at least were a number of major Dummy Head designers back when I last looked for something else, though I don't know what the current state of the market is. But basically you have something that physically simulates a human head, including both physically simulated ear pinnae and the ear canals, with microphones embedded within them that have a high enough res and response to completely cover the human discernible audio frequency range. Obviously it won't tell the exact effect for any given individual because the shape of our ears varies. But it would be possible to have a completely open 3D/material/mic standard that would cover the max range, and could then be used to quantify and objectively compare all aspects of head mounted audio products, not just noise cancellation but audio reproduction. I assume this isn't a thing already in part because a lot of manufacturers are perfectly content without universal objective comparisons, since that would reveal a lot of high cost kit that isn't actually delivering any gains.
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  Some 4 years ago I did a bunch of work in this field and just wanted to chime in about a tool that I haven't seen anywhere else that was great - HEAD acoustics' Artemis Suite analysis software. Audio has a huge array of analyses that can be performed, and the output can be interpreted in a huge number of ways, but Artemis had a fascinating data-flow architecture that made generating and interpreting audio, graphical and numerical data relatively easy (once you climbed the steep learning curve). It decoupled project management, input data, analyses, and output destinations in a way that made engineering easy. I haven't worked with any software like it before or since, but would do another project in a heartbeat! Tragically, it's locked behind a proprietary $$,$$$ license, front-end, and calibrated recording hardware. But here's a screenshot to give you an idea: https://i.imgur.com/XXzlP2b.png https://i.imgur.com/XXzlP2b.png. If you get serious about buying a head and fronted, call them up and get a demo.
  - unlinked_dll 7y ago
sod 7y ago
the actual difference graph from rtings for the airpods pro pre/post fireware update is https://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/headphones/apple/airpods-pro/airpods-pro-anc-comparison-corrected-large.jpg https://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/headphones/apple/airpo...
- OkGoDoIt 7y ago
  Can someone help me interpret these two graphs? The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way?
  - sod 7y ago
    Yeah. I bought them day one with the old firmware and was a bit disappointed that the anc was weaker with high noises as I was used by my sonys. Didn't pay attention to any change when the firmware hit. And if hadn't read about it today, I couldn't have told you that they changed it. But maybe indeed they improved on the first impression I had.
  - rckoepke 7y ago
    > The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way? You nailed it: https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardrum-suck-the-mystery-solved https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardru...
- nomel 7y ago
  Something is wrong here. The noise isolation changed pretty dramatically even with ANC off, unless off wasn't previously off. Maybe a seating problem?
friedegg 7y ago
The first time I put them on, I was in a room with a fan, and I thought it'd lost power because I didn't hear it. Took me a second to realize, nope, it was the noise cancellation.

jaryd 7y ago

Thanks for the comment. I don't know the answer but came here to ask this too. It seems really useful to be able to objectively measure the efficacy of noise cancellation across diverse products.

augbog 7y ago
Only way really is to find someone who didn't firmware update yet and compare them before and after.

mckeed 7y ago

I wonder if you could put them in one of these microphones with anatomical ears: https://3diosound.com https://3diosound.com

mandelbrotwurst 7y ago

You could build an "ear" of sorts - i.e. a box creating a seal around the buds with a microphone in it and measure how much ambient noise it picks up.

sethhochberg 7y ago
With products like this, you really do want an actual anatomical ear for measurement - often they rely a lot on the rough physics of the ear itself to work right. There is a whole niche corner of the microphone industry for "dummy head microphones" that are basically an an actual model of a head with detailed ears, and are really useful for measuring both how things sound to a human in an open environment and getting measurements of devices like headphones that need a head + ear to work.

the_pwner224 7y ago

You can measure the dB of noise reduction on a headphone test bench. Under the Isolation section here they have leakage (sound spilling out to others) and isolation (noise canceling). Keep in mind that dB is nonlinear, and the test results depend a lot on how well the testers fit the headphones on the head - so I would only consider these to be approximations within 1-3 dB of the real value. https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare Rtings hasn't (yet) done a pre/post update comparison for the AirPods but you could use the same methodology. The HyperX Cloud II are a good (isolation/leakage-wise) set of 'normal' over-ear headphones which you can compare the numbers to if you've never used ANC and are curious. And the Sony WH-1000XM3 / Bose 700 are the leading noises canceling over-ear headphones.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hashhar 7y ago
The Sony XM3s are an awesome piece of hardware. The noise cancellation is top notch, the ear cups are the most comfortable and large enough to not put too much pressure (specially for folks like me who wear specs) and are extremely lightweight with ample cushioning. Best 25k INR (was around 30% of my monthly salary == monthly rent) I ever spent.
- bori5 7y ago
  Could only dream to have rent that is 500$! ;)
  - hashhar 7y ago
    But that rent is 30% of my monthly salary. Between the rent, expenses, investments and credit card bills, I can't save more than $150 per month. And that rent is for a single room in a 4 room apartment. :( The rent for the entire apartment equals my monthly salary.
    - 7y ago

xoa 7y ago

>Is there an objective way to measure this so someone would know it's getting worse? In principle it should be possible to do standardized testing of any set of headphones or earphones with a properly designed Dummy Head, similar or the same to what is used for things like generating binaural audio recordings. There at least were a number of major Dummy Head designers back when I last looked for something else, though I don't know what the current state of the market is. But basically you have something that physically simulates a human head, including both physically simulated ear pinnae and the ear canals, with microphones embedded within them that have a high enough res and response to completely cover the human discernible audio frequency range. Obviously it won't tell the exact effect for any given individual because the shape of our ears varies. But it would be possible to have a completely open 3D/material/mic standard that would cover the max range, and could then be used to quantify and objectively compare all aspects of head mounted audio products, not just noise cancellation but audio reproduction. I assume this isn't a thing already in part because a lot of manufacturers are perfectly content without universal objective comparisons, since that would reveal a lot of high cost kit that isn't actually delivering any gains.

LeifCarrotson 7y ago
Some 4 years ago I did a bunch of work in this field and just wanted to chime in about a tool that I haven't seen anywhere else that was great - HEAD acoustics' Artemis Suite analysis software. Audio has a huge array of analyses that can be performed, and the output can be interpreted in a huge number of ways, but Artemis had a fascinating data-flow architecture that made generating and interpreting audio, graphical and numerical data relatively easy (once you climbed the steep learning curve). It decoupled project management, input data, analyses, and output destinations in a way that made engineering easy. I haven't worked with any software like it before or since, but would do another project in a heartbeat! Tragically, it's locked behind a proprietary $$,$$$ license, front-end, and calibrated recording hardware. But here's a screenshot to give you an idea: https://i.imgur.com/XXzlP2b.png https://i.imgur.com/XXzlP2b.png. If you get serious about buying a head and fronted, call them up and get a demo.
- unlinked_dll 7y ago

sod 7y ago

the actual difference graph from rtings for the airpods pro pre/post fireware update is https://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/headphones/apple/airpods-pro/airpods-pro-anc-comparison-corrected-large.jpg https://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/headphones/apple/airpo...

OkGoDoIt 7y ago
Can someone help me interpret these two graphs? The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way?
- sod 7y ago
  Yeah. I bought them day one with the old firmware and was a bit disappointed that the anc was weaker with high noises as I was used by my sonys. Didn't pay attention to any change when the firmware hit. And if hadn't read about it today, I couldn't have told you that they changed it. But maybe indeed they improved on the first impression I had.
- rckoepke 7y ago
  > The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way? You nailed it: https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardrum-suck-the-mystery-solved https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardru...
nomel 7y ago
Something is wrong here. The noise isolation changed pretty dramatically even with ANC off, unless off wasn't previously off. Maybe a seating problem?

friedegg 7y ago

The first time I put them on, I was in a room with a fan, and I thought it'd lost power because I didn't hear it. Took me a second to realize, nope, it was the noise cancellation.