16 ms·

AirPods Pro owners complain of worse noise cancellation after firmware updates

223 points by Borlands 7y ago

blakesterz 7y ago
I got a pair of this for Christmas and just recently put them in my ears for the first time having no idea they had noise cancellation built in. For a second I thought I broke my ears because everything was dead silent! I'm surprised how well the noise cancellation works, way better than the ancient Sony headphones I had. Is there an objective way to measure this so someone would know it's getting worse? Seems like it would be really subjective if not.
- jaryd 7y ago
  Thanks for the comment. I don't know the answer but came here to ask this too. It seems really useful to be able to objectively measure the efficacy of noise cancellation across diverse products.
  - augbog 7y ago
    Only way really is to find someone who didn't firmware update yet and compare them before and after.
- mckeed 7y ago
  I wonder if you could put them in one of these microphones with anatomical ears: https://3diosound.com https://3diosound.com
- mandelbrotwurst 7y ago
  You could build an "ear" of sorts - i.e. a box creating a seal around the buds with a microphone in it and measure how much ambient noise it picks up.
  - sethhochberg 7y ago
    With products like this, you really do want an actual anatomical ear for measurement - often they rely a lot on the rough physics of the ear itself to work right. There is a whole niche corner of the microphone industry for "dummy head microphones" that are basically an an actual model of a head with detailed ears, and are really useful for measuring both how things sound to a human in an open environment and getting measurements of devices like headphones that need a head + ear to work.
- the_pwner224 7y ago
  You can measure the dB of noise reduction on a headphone test bench. Under the Isolation section here they have leakage (sound spilling out to others) and isolation (noise canceling). Keep in mind that dB is nonlinear, and the test results depend a lot on how well the testers fit the headphones on the head - so I would only consider these to be approximations within 1-3 dB of the real value. https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare Rtings hasn't (yet) done a pre/post update comparison for the AirPods but you could use the same methodology. The HyperX Cloud II are a good (isolation/leakage-wise) set of 'normal' over-ear headphones which you can compare the numbers to if you've never used ANC and are curious. And the Sony WH-1000XM3 / Bose 700 are the leading noises canceling over-ear headphones.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - hashhar 7y ago
    The Sony XM3s are an awesome piece of hardware. The noise cancellation is top notch, the ear cups are the most comfortable and large enough to not put too much pressure (specially for folks like me who wear specs) and are extremely lightweight with ample cushioning. Best 25k INR (was around 30% of my monthly salary == monthly rent) I ever spent.
    - bori5 7y ago
      Could only dream to have rent that is 500$! ;)
      - hashhar 7y ago
        But that rent is 30% of my monthly salary. Between the rent, expenses, investments and credit card bills, I can't save more than $150 per month. And that rent is for a single room in a 4 room apartment. :( The rent for the entire apartment equals my monthly salary.
        7y ago
- xoa 7y ago
  >Is there an objective way to measure this so someone would know it's getting worse? In principle it should be possible to do standardized testing of any set of headphones or earphones with a properly designed Dummy Head, similar or the same to what is used for things like generating binaural audio recordings. There at least were a number of major Dummy Head designers back when I last looked for something else, though I don't know what the current state of the market is. But basically you have something that physically simulates a human head, including both physically simulated ear pinnae and the ear canals, with microphones embedded within them that have a high enough res and response to completely cover the human discernible audio frequency range. Obviously it won't tell the exact effect for any given individual because the shape of our ears varies. But it would be possible to have a completely open 3D/material/mic standard that would cover the max range, and could then be used to quantify and objectively compare all aspects of head mounted audio products, not just noise cancellation but audio reproduction. I assume this isn't a thing already in part because a lot of manufacturers are perfectly content without universal objective comparisons, since that would reveal a lot of high cost kit that isn't actually delivering any gains.
  - LeifCarrotson 7y ago
    Some 4 years ago I did a bunch of work in this field and just wanted to chime in about a tool that I haven't seen anywhere else that was great - HEAD acoustics' Artemis Suite analysis software. Audio has a huge array of analyses that can be performed, and the output can be interpreted in a huge number of ways, but Artemis had a fascinating data-flow architecture that made generating and interpreting audio, graphical and numerical data relatively easy (once you climbed the steep learning curve). It decoupled project management, input data, analyses, and output destinations in a way that made engineering easy. I haven't worked with any software like it before or since, but would do another project in a heartbeat! Tragically, it's locked behind a proprietary $$,$$$ license, front-end, and calibrated recording hardware. But here's a screenshot to give you an idea: https://i.imgur.com/XXzlP2b.png https://i.imgur.com/XXzlP2b.png. If you get serious about buying a head and fronted, call them up and get a demo.
    - unlinked_dll 7y ago
- sod 7y ago
  the actual difference graph from rtings for the airpods pro pre/post fireware update is https://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/headphones/apple/airpods-pro/airpods-pro-anc-comparison-corrected-large.jpg https://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/headphones/apple/airpo...
  - OkGoDoIt 7y ago
    Can someone help me interpret these two graphs? The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way?
    - sod 7y ago
      Yeah. I bought them day one with the old firmware and was a bit disappointed that the anc was weaker with high noises as I was used by my sonys. Didn't pay attention to any change when the firmware hit. And if hadn't read about it today, I couldn't have told you that they changed it. But maybe indeed they improved on the first impression I had.
    - rckoepke 7y ago
      > The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way? You nailed it: https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardrum-suck-the-mystery-solved https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardru...
  - nomel 7y ago
    Something is wrong here. The noise isolation changed pretty dramatically even with ANC off, unless off wasn't previously off. Maybe a seating problem?
- friedegg 7y ago
  The first time I put them on, I was in a room with a fan, and I thought it'd lost power because I didn't hear it. Took me a second to realize, nope, it was the noise cancellation.
damon_c 7y ago
Yesterday I was walking in downtown Los Angeles while donning AirPods Pro and talking on the phone and I remarked to the person I was talking to that it felt like I was walking by myself in a quiet room because of how strangely quiet it was. I'm surprised that upon checking, I seem to have the accused firmware. It's not that bad.
- ghaff 7y ago
  OT but I really have trouble with the idea of walking around cities with noise canceling earpods in. I'm even am a bit uncomfortable walking on a forest path with regular earbuds--and I mostly don't do it. I guess I just grew up without such things and it feels a bit isolating.
  - cududa 7y ago
    For me, the isolation is the point
  - damon_c 7y ago
    Yes it's very weird... but it's great when you're talking on the phone in a noisy place!
    - ghaff 7y ago
      Absolutely. When I'm in a controlled space but it's noisy, noise canceling is great. I just can't empathize with cutting myself off from my surroundings like that if I'm walking down a sidewalk in a city.
  - lukifer 7y ago
    I think the real feature is that you're in full control: the Transparency option is basically the opposite of noise-cancelling, giving you full operational awareness in a noisy environment without taking the headphones out. It's even trivial to switch between them (pinch and hold the stem). The real use for noise-cancelling isn't city-walking, but airplanes, crowded coffee shops, etc. :)
floatingatoll 7y ago
Anecdote: Before the firmware update, they were a bit pressure-heavy and would create the "stuffed ears" feeling that I'm familiar with from Bose nausea-inducing headphones. A little while ago, they stopped doing that, which was really nice, but I didn't quite notice and they continue to cancel noise to the degree they always did. EDIT2: I noticed a couple weeks ago that noise was leaking into my AirPods, so I re-did the ear fit test and this time it said they weren’t a good fit. I went one size up and now it said they were, and honestly now it’s better than it was on old firmware when I first got them. I bet that’s about when the firmware update happened! Maybe the noise canceling changed slightly because the tip fit algorithm changed slightly. EDIT: "Stuffed ears" notes for a bunch, since I guess I'm "lucky" to be sensitive to this: AirPods Pro: minimal but present until it was gone w/ update Beats Studio Pro 3: not present since purchase ~2-3 years ago Bose QC15: not present since purchase 10-15 years ago Bose modern (past five years): significant presence, did not have a chance to test differing levels of cancellation
- badwolf 7y ago
  I've definitely noticed a difference, in that I can hear the hum of my desktop computer, where it was almost completely inaudible previously. Perhaps Apple could introduce tuning/options so folks can set their desired level of noise-cancellation?
  - floatingatoll 7y ago
    Take a recording of the hum of your desktop computer by setting an iPhone next to (ideally, on a towel or pillow) your computer and using Audio Memo to capture a clean recording of the hum. Then open an AppleCare support case and indicate that your AirPods stopped noise canceling a certain hum in your house a few weeks/months ago, and that you'd captured a recording of that hum with an iPhone and would like Apple to evaluate whether your AirPods are defective or the hum is by design found not to be addressed by their noise canceling. At the very least, they'll probably let you provide them the recording (Support has a way to capture files electronically), and at best, they'll either execute a capture/swap of your AirPods for testing or tell you that this is within expected tolerances but thank you for the recording in case it helps them improve in the future.
ogre_codes 7y ago
I'm not sure why this is being posted now since Apple pulled the update a couple days ago.
- mintplant 7y ago
  > But affected customers say the trouble began even earlier with firmware version 2B588, which rolled out in November. (Apple later pulled firmware 2C54 for unknown reasons.)
- morpheuskafka 7y ago
  I just updated my phone to iOS 13.3 yesterday (was switching from unc0ver 12.4 semi-untethered jailbreak to checkra1n semi-tethered jailbreak) and my AirPods upgraded to this firmware.
- theonemind 7y ago
  It made its way on to my airpods. They haven't pulled hard enough until they make it go away in the wild.
jonplackett 7y ago
Haven’t noticed any difference. They’re still my absolute favourite bit of technology I’ve bought in ages, despite their ridiculous price tag. You’re not buying headphones. You’re buying control of what goes in (or not) of your ears ALL DAY LONG.
- caconym_ 7y ago
  Serious question from somebody who actually does wear noise-cancelling headphones all day: how do you deal with battery life? Isn't it like 4 hours or something in that range?
  - xnyan 7y ago
    When they go down to about 10% and I still need to listen to something, I take one out and let it charge for 15 minutes which takes it to over 75% for me, repeat for the other and I’m done with no downtime and a mono experience for 30 mins. In practice I don’t have to do that very often because when I’m not using them I’ll put them back in the case for a bit.
    - caconym_ 7y ago
      Good to know, thanks. I didn't think they'd charge that fast. For all the other commenters asking, I do have noise canceling headphones right now and yes they last for > 20 hours so it's not a concern unless I forget to charge them because I'm an idiot.
  - thoughtpalette 7y ago
    Believe it's 4 hours. I have a pair and always find time during the day to recharge them if need be. Usually lunch is a good time to put them back in the case.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - sod 7y ago
    Yes, it's annoying if you want to listen back to back to two joe rogan podcasts. But maybe it's not that unhealthy to remove them from the ears every now and then, so the ear canal doesn't stay to sweaty. But yeah, it's a trade off. You get from 0 to 70% in 15 min. if you put them in the case to mitigate it, though.
jammygit 7y ago
Anecdote: after iOS 13, my microphone started not-working intermittently. It still doesn’t work consistently
- ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
  Get them replaced under warranty.
ilyanep 7y ago
Since we're on the topic of the Airpods noise cancellation, does anyone know why Apple doesn't let you enable noise cancelling with only one Airpod in? Is it just that they're worried about the pressure imbalance causing discomfort?
- pieterk 7y ago
  You can enable this through the Accessibility settings. It makes sense to be the default but I’m glad they made this configurable.
  - ilyanep 7y ago
    Oo that's very good to know, thank you! I give it a 50% chance I try it out and hate it but very glad it's an option.
- pfranz 7y ago
  Another comment told you how to change this behavior, but I heard someone rationalize the default behavior as taking out one earbud can signal you're trying to talk to someone so it disables noise cancelation so you can hear them with both ears.
fauria 7y ago
There seems to be something going on related to firmware updates on noise cancelling headphones. I can think of: * October 2017 - Bose QC35. I don't know much about this one. [1] * June 2019 - Bose QC35II: Reported loss of NC effect after updating to version 4.5.2 [2](211 pages so far). Some review sites confirm it [3][4]. * January 2019 - Sony WH-1000XM3: Reported decreased performance in NC after updating to 4.1.1. [4] There are many theories around, such as planned obsolescence, patent infringements, changes to accommodate voice assistants or people getting used to NC over time. Any opinions? [1] https://community.bose.com/t5/Headphones-Archive/QC35-noise-cancellation-not-working/td-p/32783 https://community.bose.com/t5/Headphones-Archive/QC35-noise-... [2] https://community.bose.com/t5/Around-On-Ear-Headphones/Bose-QC-35-ii-firmware-4-5-2/td-p/213820 https://community.bose.com/t5/Around-On-Ear-Headphones/Bose-... [3] https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/bose/quietcomfort-35-ii-qc35-ii-wireless-2018#comparison_2089 https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/bose/quietcomfort-... [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyC9QStmzcA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyC9QStmzcA [5] https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/portable-audio/sony-wh-1000xm3-v4-1-1-firmware-failure/td-p/2564068 https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/portable-audio/sony-wh-1000x...
- tedunangst 7y ago
  If a thing changes, people will complain. Thanks to the internet, we can find them. (This is true even if literally nothing changes except the version number.)
- novok 7y ago
  I think they all privately found they cause hearing damage. Since NC is sending out a cancelling wave to your ears doesn't mean they are actually reducing the total air pressure force inside your ears itself. To avoid future liability they pushed silent firmware updates that decrease the total sound pressure in the ear generated by the NC function while not telling anyone to avoid automatic future guilty verdicts.
  - nomel 7y ago
    Do you have a reference for this? I can't find anything that supports it (only the opposite!), and, intuitively, it doesn't make much sense. My ear drum, and the hair cells behind it, do exactly one thing: respond to changes in air pressure. If the ANC isn't reducing air pressure forces, then why do I hear so little? The only way to hear less is to have less changing forces to disturbed them, is it not? I assume the good ones designed with lowpass and aliasing filters to block out anything high frequency, but inaudible, that might damage hearing. These are absolutely not air tight, so there's nothing static, and the lack of bone-conduction sounds from walking makes me think it's keeping lower frequency pressure very well under control.
40acres 7y ago
Is the noise cancelling better on AirPods than QC35s?
- wuunderbar 7y ago
  FWIW, I think my in-ear, wired QC20s have much better noise cancellation than the AirPods Pros.
- ngokevin 7y ago
  I have both. The AirPods have better NC because they have both active and passive NC. I think the active NC is better too. The QC35s are more comfortable however.
- j-conn 7y ago
  In my experience, absolutely not. I returned my pair since the noise cancelation was worse than the passive blocking of $30 true wireless earbuds from amazon. Ended up settling on the jabra elite 75t— also just passive blocking. Still not as good as qc35s for work but better than the AirPods pro along with better sound quality.
- tomkinstinch 7y ago
  The Apple Store sells both and will let you compare the two models if you ask nicely (with new/clean AirPods). I found AirPods have noticeably better noise cancellation (for me) than the QC35s, but YMMV. Subtle but better. It's hard to say if my impression was due to better passive noise isolation or improved active noise cancellation (does the QC35 have an error-correction microphone downstream?). One thing that is absolutely true is that the QC35s do not work as well mechanically for those of us who wear eyeglasses: the cushions can't seal around the temple pieces of the frames, so some sound will always leak under the eyeglasses. For that reason alone—even if the AirPods have equivalent noise cancellation tech—the AirPods can work better for people with glasses as long as the tips seal properly. My wife, an eyeglass wearer with long hair, also found the AirPods more effective at reducing noise when we tried them both at the Apple Store. I certainly find them effective for commuter rail travel. As an aside, one slightly annoying usability issue with the AirPods is that in comparison to the QC35 they behave differently when part of a multi-output audio device under MacOS. My wife and I often watch video using two pairs of bluetooth headphones paired and synced to the same Macbook Pro[1,2]. It's great for late-night movies in city apartments. Using the QC35s and her headphones, the aggregate device remains selected when the QC35s are paused or turned off (meaning, she can still listen if I go out of range or turn off my headphones). With the AirPods, if I take one out of my ear (to scratch an itch, say), the AirPods suddenly become the only audio output device when I put it back in, and the second pair of headphones goes silent. A small annoyance, but curious. 1. Set up your own bluetooth audio "splitter" to allow multiple people to listen togther: https://support.apple.com/guide/audio-midi-setup/play-audio-through-multiple-devices-at-once-ams7c093f372/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/audio-midi-setup/play-audio-... 2. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202000 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202000
lenova 7y ago
Anyone have any experience with cheaper Anker noise cancelling earbuds? I'm experiencing the slight nausea mentioned above with my Bose QC20s and am looking for an alternative, but not at the Airpod price point.
- prostheticvamp 7y ago
  Pretty positive. Got the soundcore liberty neo, used for the gym, not an audiophile. Sound is clear, ear fit is reasonably reliable.
gesman 7y ago
Bose can't get over inflicting the annoying beeps or voice prompts on customers when earphones connect or disconnect from source. It's impossible to turn this stupidity off. If you turn off voice prompts, it get replaced by beeps. And vice versa. If you have few devices - earphones either beeps or talks to you non stop.
Sephr 7y ago
Are you able to update the AirPods Pro firmware through any Apple laptops?
tedunangst 7y ago
Verge's primary source is a year old thread about the original airpods?
- ktta 7y ago
  That thread is pretty active. And when you have an 'article' about a few 'owners complaining', discussion forum post sounds like an appropriate source.
  - tedunangst 7y ago
    I clicked it, saw posts from last March, scrolled down, still March, gave up. Oh well.
bariswheel 7y ago
Thanks for the heads up. No firmware updates for a while then.
b0tch7 7y ago
Slightly off topic but any Android users here have the Airpods Pro? What's your experience been? Fwiw, I have a Pixel 3
- ganstyles 7y ago
  I use them with Android exclusively for regular use. They work great, Pixel 3 here. Occasionally only one connects and I either have to turn Bluetooth on and off again, or put Airpods back and take them out. But only occasionally and usually if the phone is in my back pocket or something. But the iPhone experience is significantly better. They connect via their special chip so it's more reliable afaik, you get to easily check battery status, and the tip fit test seems to only be available on iPhone. I use my partners iPhone to set it up with the fit test and to occasionally check firmware. But I charge them regularly and have never had a need to check battery life tbh, thorough there is at least one Android app that will check battery life, I didn't think it was that great. Overall with the Pixel 3 they're still the best noise cancelling and general experience Bluetooth headphones I've ever used.
  - qqii 7y ago
    What was your experience updating the firmware?
midnitewarrior 7y ago
Just buy the AirPod Pro 2 next Fall
chris_wot 7y ago
It seems to me that Apple’s software is steadily regressing. One of my favourite apps is iBooks, but I cannot use it as it reloads for a good 10-15 minutes at times, or refreshes the screen here or four times unnecessarily. I am going to move to Kindle because of it.
jmull 7y ago
From my perspective, I think it works a little better. There's less of an "ears are plugged" sensation but everything remains quiet (it's actually a little eerie to me when I first turn it on).
jtokoph 7y ago
The past few days I keep thinking the noise cancellation is off and try to turn it on, only to find it is on. It’s almost as if turning on noise cancelling also turns on transparency mode. I hear the outside noise clearly, just at a different pitch or something.
utf_8x 7y ago
Isn't this just like when people though the QC35s from Bose did this because everyone started saying they did even though there was no measurable difference?
totalZero 7y ago
This exact same thing happened to my Bose QC35 headphones.

223 points by Borlands 7y ago

I got a pair of this for Christmas and just recently put them in my ears for the first time having no idea they had noise cancellation built in. For a second I thought I broke my ears because everything was dead silent! I'm surprised how well the noise cancellation works, way better than the ancient Sony headphones I had. Is there an objective way to measure this so someone would know it's getting worse? Seems like it would be really subjective if not.

jaryd 7y ago
Thanks for the comment. I don't know the answer but came here to ask this too. It seems really useful to be able to objectively measure the efficacy of noise cancellation across diverse products.
- augbog 7y ago
  Only way really is to find someone who didn't firmware update yet and compare them before and after.
mckeed 7y ago
I wonder if you could put them in one of these microphones with anatomical ears: https://3diosound.com https://3diosound.com
mandelbrotwurst 7y ago
You could build an "ear" of sorts - i.e. a box creating a seal around the buds with a microphone in it and measure how much ambient noise it picks up.
- sethhochberg 7y ago
  With products like this, you really do want an actual anatomical ear for measurement - often they rely a lot on the rough physics of the ear itself to work right. There is a whole niche corner of the microphone industry for "dummy head microphones" that are basically an an actual model of a head with detailed ears, and are really useful for measuring both how things sound to a human in an open environment and getting measurements of devices like headphones that need a head + ear to work.
the_pwner224 7y ago
You can measure the dB of noise reduction on a headphone test bench. Under the Isolation section here they have leakage (sound spilling out to others) and isolation (noise canceling). Keep in mind that dB is nonlinear, and the test results depend a lot on how well the testers fit the headphones on the head - so I would only consider these to be approximations within 1-3 dB of the real value. https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare Rtings hasn't (yet) done a pre/post update comparison for the AirPods but you could use the same methodology. The HyperX Cloud II are a good (isolation/leakage-wise) set of 'normal' over-ear headphones which you can compare the numbers to if you've never used ANC and are curious. And the Sony WH-1000XM3 / Bose 700 are the leading noises canceling over-ear headphones.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- hashhar 7y ago
  The Sony XM3s are an awesome piece of hardware. The noise cancellation is top notch, the ear cups are the most comfortable and large enough to not put too much pressure (specially for folks like me who wear specs) and are extremely lightweight with ample cushioning. Best 25k INR (was around 30% of my monthly salary == monthly rent) I ever spent.
  - bori5 7y ago
    Could only dream to have rent that is 500$! ;)
    - hashhar 7y ago
      But that rent is 30% of my monthly salary. Between the rent, expenses, investments and credit card bills, I can't save more than $150 per month. And that rent is for a single room in a 4 room apartment. :( The rent for the entire apartment equals my monthly salary.
      - 7y ago
xoa 7y ago
>Is there an objective way to measure this so someone would know it's getting worse? In principle it should be possible to do standardized testing of any set of headphones or earphones with a properly designed Dummy Head, similar or the same to what is used for things like generating binaural audio recordings. There at least were a number of major Dummy Head designers back when I last looked for something else, though I don't know what the current state of the market is. But basically you have something that physically simulates a human head, including both physically simulated ear pinnae and the ear canals, with microphones embedded within them that have a high enough res and response to completely cover the human discernible audio frequency range. Obviously it won't tell the exact effect for any given individual because the shape of our ears varies. But it would be possible to have a completely open 3D/material/mic standard that would cover the max range, and could then be used to quantify and objectively compare all aspects of head mounted audio products, not just noise cancellation but audio reproduction. I assume this isn't a thing already in part because a lot of manufacturers are perfectly content without universal objective comparisons, since that would reveal a lot of high cost kit that isn't actually delivering any gains.
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  Some 4 years ago I did a bunch of work in this field and just wanted to chime in about a tool that I haven't seen anywhere else that was great - HEAD acoustics' Artemis Suite analysis software. Audio has a huge array of analyses that can be performed, and the output can be interpreted in a huge number of ways, but Artemis had a fascinating data-flow architecture that made generating and interpreting audio, graphical and numerical data relatively easy (once you climbed the steep learning curve). It decoupled project management, input data, analyses, and output destinations in a way that made engineering easy. I haven't worked with any software like it before or since, but would do another project in a heartbeat! Tragically, it's locked behind a proprietary $$,$$$ license, front-end, and calibrated recording hardware. But here's a screenshot to give you an idea: https://i.imgur.com/XXzlP2b.png https://i.imgur.com/XXzlP2b.png. If you get serious about buying a head and fronted, call them up and get a demo.
  - unlinked_dll 7y ago
sod 7y ago
the actual difference graph from rtings for the airpods pro pre/post fireware update is https://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/headphones/apple/airpods-pro/airpods-pro-anc-comparison-corrected-large.jpg https://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/headphones/apple/airpo...
- OkGoDoIt 7y ago
  Can someone help me interpret these two graphs? The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way?
  - sod 7y ago
    Yeah. I bought them day one with the old firmware and was a bit disappointed that the anc was weaker with high noises as I was used by my sonys. Didn't pay attention to any change when the firmware hit. And if hadn't read about it today, I couldn't have told you that they changed it. But maybe indeed they improved on the first impression I had.
  - rckoepke 7y ago
    > The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way? You nailed it: https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardrum-suck-the-mystery-solved https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardru...
- nomel 7y ago
  Something is wrong here. The noise isolation changed pretty dramatically even with ANC off, unless off wasn't previously off. Maybe a seating problem?
friedegg 7y ago
The first time I put them on, I was in a room with a fan, and I thought it'd lost power because I didn't hear it. Took me a second to realize, nope, it was the noise cancellation.

damon_c 7y ago

Yesterday I was walking in downtown Los Angeles while donning AirPods Pro and talking on the phone and I remarked to the person I was talking to that it felt like I was walking by myself in a quiet room because of how strangely quiet it was. I'm surprised that upon checking, I seem to have the accused firmware. It's not that bad.

ghaff 7y ago
OT but I really have trouble with the idea of walking around cities with noise canceling earpods in. I'm even am a bit uncomfortable walking on a forest path with regular earbuds--and I mostly don't do it. I guess I just grew up without such things and it feels a bit isolating.
- cududa 7y ago
  For me, the isolation is the point
- damon_c 7y ago
  Yes it's very weird... but it's great when you're talking on the phone in a noisy place!
  - ghaff 7y ago
    Absolutely. When I'm in a controlled space but it's noisy, noise canceling is great. I just can't empathize with cutting myself off from my surroundings like that if I'm walking down a sidewalk in a city.
- lukifer 7y ago
  I think the real feature is that you're in full control: the Transparency option is basically the opposite of noise-cancelling, giving you full operational awareness in a noisy environment without taking the headphones out. It's even trivial to switch between them (pinch and hold the stem). The real use for noise-cancelling isn't city-walking, but airplanes, crowded coffee shops, etc. :)

floatingatoll 7y ago

Anecdote: Before the firmware update, they were a bit pressure-heavy and would create the "stuffed ears" feeling that I'm familiar with from Bose nausea-inducing headphones. A little while ago, they stopped doing that, which was really nice, but I didn't quite notice and they continue to cancel noise to the degree they always did. EDIT2: I noticed a couple weeks ago that noise was leaking into my AirPods, so I re-did the ear fit test and this time it said they weren’t a good fit. I went one size up and now it said they were, and honestly now it’s better than it was on old firmware when I first got them. I bet that’s about when the firmware update happened! Maybe the noise canceling changed slightly because the tip fit algorithm changed slightly. EDIT: "Stuffed ears" notes for a bunch, since I guess I'm "lucky" to be sensitive to this: AirPods Pro: minimal but present until it was gone w/ update Beats Studio Pro 3: not present since purchase ~2-3 years ago Bose QC15: not present since purchase 10-15 years ago Bose modern (past five years): significant presence, did not have a chance to test differing levels of cancellation

badwolf 7y ago
I've definitely noticed a difference, in that I can hear the hum of my desktop computer, where it was almost completely inaudible previously. Perhaps Apple could introduce tuning/options so folks can set their desired level of noise-cancellation?
- floatingatoll 7y ago
  Take a recording of the hum of your desktop computer by setting an iPhone next to (ideally, on a towel or pillow) your computer and using Audio Memo to capture a clean recording of the hum. Then open an AppleCare support case and indicate that your AirPods stopped noise canceling a certain hum in your house a few weeks/months ago, and that you'd captured a recording of that hum with an iPhone and would like Apple to evaluate whether your AirPods are defective or the hum is by design found not to be addressed by their noise canceling. At the very least, they'll probably let you provide them the recording (Support has a way to capture files electronically), and at best, they'll either execute a capture/swap of your AirPods for testing or tell you that this is within expected tolerances but thank you for the recording in case it helps them improve in the future.

ogre_codes 7y ago

I'm not sure why this is being posted now since Apple pulled the update a couple days ago.

mintplant 7y ago
> But affected customers say the trouble began even earlier with firmware version 2B588, which rolled out in November. (Apple later pulled firmware 2C54 for unknown reasons.)
morpheuskafka 7y ago
I just updated my phone to iOS 13.3 yesterday (was switching from unc0ver 12.4 semi-untethered jailbreak to checkra1n semi-tethered jailbreak) and my AirPods upgraded to this firmware.
theonemind 7y ago
It made its way on to my airpods. They haven't pulled hard enough until they make it go away in the wild.

jonplackett 7y ago

Haven’t noticed any difference. They’re still my absolute favourite bit of technology I’ve bought in ages, despite their ridiculous price tag. You’re not buying headphones. You’re buying control of what goes in (or not) of your ears ALL DAY LONG.

caconym_ 7y ago
Serious question from somebody who actually does wear noise-cancelling headphones all day: how do you deal with battery life? Isn't it like 4 hours or something in that range?
- xnyan 7y ago
  When they go down to about 10% and I still need to listen to something, I take one out and let it charge for 15 minutes which takes it to over 75% for me, repeat for the other and I’m done with no downtime and a mono experience for 30 mins. In practice I don’t have to do that very often because when I’m not using them I’ll put them back in the case for a bit.
  - caconym_ 7y ago
    Good to know, thanks. I didn't think they'd charge that fast. For all the other commenters asking, I do have noise canceling headphones right now and yes they last for > 20 hours so it's not a concern unless I forget to charge them because I'm an idiot.
- thoughtpalette 7y ago
  Believe it's 4 hours. I have a pair and always find time during the day to recharge them if need be. Usually lunch is a good time to put them back in the case.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- sod 7y ago
  Yes, it's annoying if you want to listen back to back to two joe rogan podcasts. But maybe it's not that unhealthy to remove them from the ears every now and then, so the ear canal doesn't stay to sweaty. But yeah, it's a trade off. You get from 0 to 70% in 15 min. if you put them in the case to mitigate it, though.

jammygit 7y ago

Anecdote: after iOS 13, my microphone started not-working intermittently. It still doesn’t work consistently

ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
Get them replaced under warranty.

ilyanep 7y ago

Since we're on the topic of the Airpods noise cancellation, does anyone know why Apple doesn't let you enable noise cancelling with only one Airpod in? Is it just that they're worried about the pressure imbalance causing discomfort?

pieterk 7y ago
You can enable this through the Accessibility settings. It makes sense to be the default but I’m glad they made this configurable.
- ilyanep 7y ago
  Oo that's very good to know, thank you! I give it a 50% chance I try it out and hate it but very glad it's an option.
pfranz 7y ago
Another comment told you how to change this behavior, but I heard someone rationalize the default behavior as taking out one earbud can signal you're trying to talk to someone so it disables noise cancelation so you can hear them with both ears.

fauria 7y ago

There seems to be something going on related to firmware updates on noise cancelling headphones. I can think of: * October 2017 - Bose QC35. I don't know much about this one. [1] * June 2019 - Bose QC35II: Reported loss of NC effect after updating to version 4.5.2 [2](211 pages so far). Some review sites confirm it [3][4]. * January 2019 - Sony WH-1000XM3: Reported decreased performance in NC after updating to 4.1.1. [4] There are many theories around, such as planned obsolescence, patent infringements, changes to accommodate voice assistants or people getting used to NC over time. Any opinions? [1] https://community.bose.com/t5/Headphones-Archive/QC35-noise-cancellation-not-working/td-p/32783 https://community.bose.com/t5/Headphones-Archive/QC35-noise-... [2] https://community.bose.com/t5/Around-On-Ear-Headphones/Bose-QC-35-ii-firmware-4-5-2/td-p/213820 https://community.bose.com/t5/Around-On-Ear-Headphones/Bose-... [3] https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/bose/quietcomfort-35-ii-qc35-ii-wireless-2018#comparison_2089 https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/bose/quietcomfort-... [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyC9QStmzcA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyC9QStmzcA [5] https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/portable-audio/sony-wh-1000xm3-v4-1-1-firmware-failure/td-p/2564068 https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/portable-audio/sony-wh-1000x...

tedunangst 7y ago
If a thing changes, people will complain. Thanks to the internet, we can find them. (This is true even if literally nothing changes except the version number.)
novok 7y ago
I think they all privately found they cause hearing damage. Since NC is sending out a cancelling wave to your ears doesn't mean they are actually reducing the total air pressure force inside your ears itself. To avoid future liability they pushed silent firmware updates that decrease the total sound pressure in the ear generated by the NC function while not telling anyone to avoid automatic future guilty verdicts.
- nomel 7y ago
  Do you have a reference for this? I can't find anything that supports it (only the opposite!), and, intuitively, it doesn't make much sense. My ear drum, and the hair cells behind it, do exactly one thing: respond to changes in air pressure. If the ANC isn't reducing air pressure forces, then why do I hear so little? The only way to hear less is to have less changing forces to disturbed them, is it not? I assume the good ones designed with lowpass and aliasing filters to block out anything high frequency, but inaudible, that might damage hearing. These are absolutely not air tight, so there's nothing static, and the lack of bone-conduction sounds from walking makes me think it's keeping lower frequency pressure very well under control.

40acres 7y ago

Is the noise cancelling better on AirPods than QC35s?

wuunderbar 7y ago
FWIW, I think my in-ear, wired QC20s have much better noise cancellation than the AirPods Pros.
ngokevin 7y ago
I have both. The AirPods have better NC because they have both active and passive NC. I think the active NC is better too. The QC35s are more comfortable however.
j-conn 7y ago
In my experience, absolutely not. I returned my pair since the noise cancelation was worse than the passive blocking of $30 true wireless earbuds from amazon. Ended up settling on the jabra elite 75t— also just passive blocking. Still not as good as qc35s for work but better than the AirPods pro along with better sound quality.
tomkinstinch 7y ago
The Apple Store sells both and will let you compare the two models if you ask nicely (with new/clean AirPods). I found AirPods have noticeably better noise cancellation (for me) than the QC35s, but YMMV. Subtle but better. It's hard to say if my impression was due to better passive noise isolation or improved active noise cancellation (does the QC35 have an error-correction microphone downstream?). One thing that is absolutely true is that the QC35s do not work as well mechanically for those of us who wear eyeglasses: the cushions can't seal around the temple pieces of the frames, so some sound will always leak under the eyeglasses. For that reason alone—even if the AirPods have equivalent noise cancellation tech—the AirPods can work better for people with glasses as long as the tips seal properly. My wife, an eyeglass wearer with long hair, also found the AirPods more effective at reducing noise when we tried them both at the Apple Store. I certainly find them effective for commuter rail travel. As an aside, one slightly annoying usability issue with the AirPods is that in comparison to the QC35 they behave differently when part of a multi-output audio device under MacOS. My wife and I often watch video using two pairs of bluetooth headphones paired and synced to the same Macbook Pro[1,2]. It's great for late-night movies in city apartments. Using the QC35s and her headphones, the aggregate device remains selected when the QC35s are paused or turned off (meaning, she can still listen if I go out of range or turn off my headphones). With the AirPods, if I take one out of my ear (to scratch an itch, say), the AirPods suddenly become the only audio output device when I put it back in, and the second pair of headphones goes silent. A small annoyance, but curious. 1. Set up your own bluetooth audio "splitter" to allow multiple people to listen togther: https://support.apple.com/guide/audio-midi-setup/play-audio-through-multiple-devices-at-once-ams7c093f372/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/audio-midi-setup/play-audio-... 2. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202000 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202000

lenova 7y ago

Anyone have any experience with cheaper Anker noise cancelling earbuds? I'm experiencing the slight nausea mentioned above with my Bose QC20s and am looking for an alternative, but not at the Airpod price point.

prostheticvamp 7y ago
Pretty positive. Got the soundcore liberty neo, used for the gym, not an audiophile. Sound is clear, ear fit is reasonably reliable.

gesman 7y ago

Bose can't get over inflicting the annoying beeps or voice prompts on customers when earphones connect or disconnect from source. It's impossible to turn this stupidity off. If you turn off voice prompts, it get replaced by beeps. And vice versa. If you have few devices - earphones either beeps or talks to you non stop.

Sephr 7y ago

Are you able to update the AirPods Pro firmware through any Apple laptops?

tedunangst 7y ago

Verge's primary source is a year old thread about the original airpods?

ktta 7y ago
That thread is pretty active. And when you have an 'article' about a few 'owners complaining', discussion forum post sounds like an appropriate source.
- tedunangst 7y ago
  I clicked it, saw posts from last March, scrolled down, still March, gave up. Oh well.

bariswheel 7y ago

Thanks for the heads up. No firmware updates for a while then.

b0tch7 7y ago

Slightly off topic but any Android users here have the Airpods Pro? What's your experience been? Fwiw, I have a Pixel 3

ganstyles 7y ago
I use them with Android exclusively for regular use. They work great, Pixel 3 here. Occasionally only one connects and I either have to turn Bluetooth on and off again, or put Airpods back and take them out. But only occasionally and usually if the phone is in my back pocket or something. But the iPhone experience is significantly better. They connect via their special chip so it's more reliable afaik, you get to easily check battery status, and the tip fit test seems to only be available on iPhone. I use my partners iPhone to set it up with the fit test and to occasionally check firmware. But I charge them regularly and have never had a need to check battery life tbh, thorough there is at least one Android app that will check battery life, I didn't think it was that great. Overall with the Pixel 3 they're still the best noise cancelling and general experience Bluetooth headphones I've ever used.
- qqii 7y ago
  What was your experience updating the firmware?

midnitewarrior 7y ago

Just buy the AirPod Pro 2 next Fall

chris_wot 7y ago

It seems to me that Apple’s software is steadily regressing. One of my favourite apps is iBooks, but I cannot use it as it reloads for a good 10-15 minutes at times, or refreshes the screen here or four times unnecessarily. I am going to move to Kindle because of it.

jmull 7y ago

From my perspective, I think it works a little better. There's less of an "ears are plugged" sensation but everything remains quiet (it's actually a little eerie to me when I first turn it on).

jtokoph 7y ago

The past few days I keep thinking the noise cancellation is off and try to turn it on, only to find it is on. It’s almost as if turning on noise cancelling also turns on transparency mode. I hear the outside noise clearly, just at a different pitch or something.

utf_8x 7y ago

Isn't this just like when people though the QC35s from Bose did this because everyone started saying they did even though there was no measurable difference?

totalZero 7y ago

This exact same thing happened to my Bose QC35 headphones.