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But rationality (in the human sense) is completely governed by emotion. Curiosity about an unsolved problem? that's emotional regulation of the brain. Satisfact

But rationality (in the human sense) is completely governed by emotion. Curiosity about an unsolved problem? that's emotional regulation of the brain. Satisfaction that a problem is solved? also emotion. Beauty in a better solution? emotion. This has significance, it's not just a restatement of "the problem" using different terminology. It's significant because the brain, like every other part of the body, evolved parsimoniously, and it does not have spare capacity lying around, so anything that "distracts" the emotional parts of the brain will diminish rational capacity. "Hangry" is not just a pun/quip about being hungry, it's empirically measurable, it affects outcomes. Debating rational topics with your rational friends, whether at work, at school, or after hours over a beer, it's fun (emotion), can be frustrating (emotion) but does it ever not get heated (more emotion)? The brain is an emotional organ. All the other organs are rational, they do what they do in entirely predictable and logical ways.

zzzeek 7y ago
this does not negate the fact that a breakdown in rationality is also caused by emotion. the human brain is emotional throughout. however the part of it that has "rational debates" is not an intrinsic behavior. that part is based on cognitive skill which will perform to a greater or lesser extent based on current brain state. if the amygdala is active in a state of fear or anger, "rational debate" skill will be compromised, since that is not a useful skill in the traditional evolutionary situation that calls for fear or anger.
- fsckboy 7y ago
  now this time I will employ simple restatement to help convey the point I'm making--and for you to be rational is for you to first simply understand what I'm saying; arguing back is not entirely rational, it's actually an additional emotional step: think of rationality of the brain like a signed vs unsigned char in most implementations of C, basically a byte: you could think of a byte as 0-255 or as -127 to +126. The brain is an emotional organ. Rationality is the best possible outcome, but it's not the default state; the brain doesn't function from 0 to 255 rationality, it functions from -127 to +128. I say it this way because you talk about rationality "breaking down" as if it's some sort of default. I don't think of it that way. Rationality is something we hope to build up to and are lucky to achieve, but our default state is animal passion. I'm not trying to convince you to change what you think, just using some restatements to open your thinking to the way psychiatry views the brain.
  - zzzeek 7y ago
    > I say it this way because you talk about rationality "breaking down" as if it's some sort of default. I'm sorry, can you please explain how you come to this conclusion based on what I wrote: "however the part of it that has "rational debates" is not an intrinsic behavior. that part is based on cognitive skill which will perform to a greater or lesser extent based on current brain state." I'm not really arguing with you, as your first point seemed to be some kind of "but what about...!" that didn't really negate what I was trying to say. However if you think I was saying something completely different, that would make more sense for whatever it is you're attempting to "argue".

zzzeek 7y ago

this does not negate the fact that a breakdown in rationality is also caused by emotion. the human brain is emotional throughout. however the part of it that has "rational debates" is not an intrinsic behavior. that part is based on cognitive skill which will perform to a greater or lesser extent based on current brain state. if the amygdala is active in a state of fear or anger, "rational debate" skill will be compromised, since that is not a useful skill in the traditional evolutionary situation that calls for fear or anger.

fsckboy 7y ago
now this time I will employ simple restatement to help convey the point I'm making--and for you to be rational is for you to first simply understand what I'm saying; arguing back is not entirely rational, it's actually an additional emotional step: think of rationality of the brain like a signed vs unsigned char in most implementations of C, basically a byte: you could think of a byte as 0-255 or as -127 to +126. The brain is an emotional organ. Rationality is the best possible outcome, but it's not the default state; the brain doesn't function from 0 to 255 rationality, it functions from -127 to +128. I say it this way because you talk about rationality "breaking down" as if it's some sort of default. I don't think of it that way. Rationality is something we hope to build up to and are lucky to achieve, but our default state is animal passion. I'm not trying to convince you to change what you think, just using some restatements to open your thinking to the way psychiatry views the brain.
- zzzeek 7y ago
  > I say it this way because you talk about rationality "breaking down" as if it's some sort of default. I'm sorry, can you please explain how you come to this conclusion based on what I wrote: "however the part of it that has "rational debates" is not an intrinsic behavior. that part is based on cognitive skill which will perform to a greater or lesser extent based on current brain state." I'm not really arguing with you, as your first point seemed to be some kind of "but what about...!" that didn't really negate what I was trying to say. However if you think I was saying something completely different, that would make more sense for whatever it is you're attempting to "argue".