29 ms·

> I think one of the easiest wins here would be what some US startups with unlimited leave were practicing: a required minimum of days off. Any examples of com

> I think one of the easiest wins here would be what some US startups with unlimited leave were practicing: a required minimum of days off. Any examples of companies that are doing this? I haven't heard of many, at least in the SF Bay Area.

lukego 7y ago
This reminds me of being an employee in Stockholm. You get scolded if you haven't booked thirty days of vacation into the calendar. Someone comes to your desk and makes you pick the dates. You come back with a lot of energy too :-)
- irrational 7y ago
  Yeah, but that energy dissipates pretty quickly. I took three weeks off recently. I came back very energized and upbeat. It took maybe 2 days to get back to "normal".
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > You come back with a lot of energy too :-) "Man Returns To Work After Vacation With Fresh, Reenergized Hatred For Job" * https://local.theonion.com/man-returns-to-work-after-vacation-with-fresh-reenergi-1819574342 https://local.theonion.com/man-returns-to-work-after-vacatio...
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  Happened to me last week. Had to pick 23 days between now and 13th of April. I picked at random, the `manager` and I both know I'll be working at home anyway.
  - gsk22 7y ago
    I honestly do not understand this mentality. You're given 23 paid days off, why would you donate that time back to your employer?
    - ghi5goio3qno4i3 7y ago
      Not that hard to understand. Some people don't or can't have anything other then work in their lives. Some people have home lives that are so terrible that working is a better option. Some people can't afford to do anything with it anyways. And some people just need to work; otherwise they die, either by suicide or just lost motivation to care about themselves. If you still can't understand, then I would urge you not to try. Trust me when I say, it's better not to understand why in this case.
    - sfRattan 7y ago
      So that the employer will see him more favorably than the other employees at the same level when making decisions in which all other things are equal. From the candor of GP's comment, I would venture to guess that both he and the manager are type-A personalities who want to be at work all the time. My dad was and is like that. He progressed much further in his career than he would have otherwise and our family was none-the-worse for it. Not everyone is like that, but I don't see it as incomprehensible (or even a problem). Although I'm not the same as my dad, I've long felt an individualist stubbornness that leads me to a similar conclusions. When I was a kid, we had a birthday party at a bowling alley and the attendants put the bumpers[1] up in our alley and wouldn't take them down. I was so incensed that I instead made a game of trying to whack the bowling ball hard enough against the bumpers to bounce over them. I was elated when I got one all the way into the next alley. My gut reacts to the idea of "mandatory days off" in an intuitively similar way, even though I probably wouldn't be incensed about it the way I was about the bumpers in the bowling alley as a child. I'm probably on the extreme end of a cultural and value difference between Americans and Europeans. [1]: https://cdn.mykidlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/02110106/kid-friendly-bowling-alleys.png https://cdn.mykidlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/0211010...
      - johnchristopher 7y ago
        > So that the employer will see him more favorably than the other employees at the same level when making decisions in which all other things are equal. There's a bit of that. The main reason though is that I am way out of touch and unable to separate work/whatever life for a bunch of different reasons. Let's say I am a mess right now and not caring much about losing vacation. > From the candor of GP's comment, I would venture to guess that both he and the manager are type-A personalities who want to be at work all the time. My dad was and is like that. He progressed much further in his career than he would have otherwise and our family was none-the-worse for it. Not everyone is like that, but I don't see it as incomprehensible (or even a problem). Not really, maybe. I am a teamplayer and a people pleaser but I have some type A tendencies (types only tell a part of the story anyway). I have nothing to show for that though (not a top leet coder, not a top lead manager, etc. I am good, reliable but I am not shining). I think if I was more "type A" I would not let such things happen. > [1]: https://cdn.mykidlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/0211010.. https://cdn.mykidlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/0211010.... How did you do that :D
  - rfrey 7y ago
    Will you also donate 12% of your salary to the company?
    - johnchristopher 7y ago
      Well... the company actually owes me money for travel expenses (which are the four digit numbers) that I had to pay upfront.
ThrustVectoring 7y ago
Mandatory leave is common in the financial sector, where it is used as an anti-fraud device. Keeping your employer from figuring out the scheme you're pulling is a lot harder when you have to have someone cover for you for two weeks.
- amluto 7y ago
  It’s not just anti-fraud. If you force someone to take a vacation, you force the organization to be able to function without them. This prevents a situation where only a single person is able to make something critical work.
  - close04 7y ago
    In Europe this is pretty standard practice everywhere. Say you have 30 days of vacation per year. You have to take at least 20, and 10 of those have to be consecutive. Otherwise your manager gets a bollocking from their manager and HR. In theory at least. The rest of the days might be lost, transferred into next year’s vacation with a cutoff (like until end of Q1 next year or end of the year otherwise they are lost), or with no cutoff and they stack up forever.
    - ohlookabird 7y ago
      Yes, that's what experienced, too in Germany. Both in the private and public sector.
    - skinkestek 7y ago
      Here in Norway it is 5 workweeks (6 for those over 60 I think), 2 can be transferred (either way I think) and 3 are mandatory. And if you delay two weeks to next year that means 5 mandatory weeks that year. And: it is not just in theory. It is the law and both parts can get in trouble if you don't follow it.
      - MockObject 7y ago
        When people from here write "here", which "here" do they mean? The one here, or the one there?
solarmist 7y ago
LinkedIn does. The whole company goes on break for the 4th of July week and the last week of the year.
yomly 7y ago
I feel Palantir used to and I think Netflix does
jdsalaro 7y ago
At GitLab we have a very flexible PTO policy and although I've never heard of a colleague being forced to take time off, we do have a couple of stern remarks codified in our handbook and constantly remind each other to do so: > We don't frown on people taking time off, but rather encourage people to take care of themselves and others by having some time away. If you notice that your co-worker is working long hours over a sustained period, you may want to let them know about the time off policy. > Not taking vacation is viewed as a weakness and people shouldn't boast about it. It is viewed as a lack of humility about your role, not fostering collaboration in training others in your job, and not being able to document and explain your work. You are doing the company a disservice by being a single point of failure. The company must be able to go for long periods without you. We don't want to lose you permanently by you burning yourself out by not taking regular vacations. https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/paid-time-off/ https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/paid-time-off/

lukego 7y ago

This reminds me of being an employee in Stockholm. You get scolded if you haven't booked thirty days of vacation into the calendar. Someone comes to your desk and makes you pick the dates. You come back with a lot of energy too :-)

irrational 7y ago
Yeah, but that energy dissipates pretty quickly. I took three weeks off recently. I came back very energized and upbeat. It took maybe 2 days to get back to "normal".
throw0101a 7y ago
> You come back with a lot of energy too :-) "Man Returns To Work After Vacation With Fresh, Reenergized Hatred For Job" * https://local.theonion.com/man-returns-to-work-after-vacation-with-fresh-reenergi-1819574342 https://local.theonion.com/man-returns-to-work-after-vacatio...
johnchristopher 7y ago
Happened to me last week. Had to pick 23 days between now and 13th of April. I picked at random, the `manager` and I both know I'll be working at home anyway.
- gsk22 7y ago
  I honestly do not understand this mentality. You're given 23 paid days off, why would you donate that time back to your employer?
  - ghi5goio3qno4i3 7y ago
    Not that hard to understand. Some people don't or can't have anything other then work in their lives. Some people have home lives that are so terrible that working is a better option. Some people can't afford to do anything with it anyways. And some people just need to work; otherwise they die, either by suicide or just lost motivation to care about themselves. If you still can't understand, then I would urge you not to try. Trust me when I say, it's better not to understand why in this case.
  - sfRattan 7y ago
    So that the employer will see him more favorably than the other employees at the same level when making decisions in which all other things are equal. From the candor of GP's comment, I would venture to guess that both he and the manager are type-A personalities who want to be at work all the time. My dad was and is like that. He progressed much further in his career than he would have otherwise and our family was none-the-worse for it. Not everyone is like that, but I don't see it as incomprehensible (or even a problem). Although I'm not the same as my dad, I've long felt an individualist stubbornness that leads me to a similar conclusions. When I was a kid, we had a birthday party at a bowling alley and the attendants put the bumpers[1] up in our alley and wouldn't take them down. I was so incensed that I instead made a game of trying to whack the bowling ball hard enough against the bumpers to bounce over them. I was elated when I got one all the way into the next alley. My gut reacts to the idea of "mandatory days off" in an intuitively similar way, even though I probably wouldn't be incensed about it the way I was about the bumpers in the bowling alley as a child. I'm probably on the extreme end of a cultural and value difference between Americans and Europeans. [1]: https://cdn.mykidlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/02110106/kid-friendly-bowling-alleys.png https://cdn.mykidlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/0211010...
    - johnchristopher 7y ago
      > So that the employer will see him more favorably than the other employees at the same level when making decisions in which all other things are equal. There's a bit of that. The main reason though is that I am way out of touch and unable to separate work/whatever life for a bunch of different reasons. Let's say I am a mess right now and not caring much about losing vacation. > From the candor of GP's comment, I would venture to guess that both he and the manager are type-A personalities who want to be at work all the time. My dad was and is like that. He progressed much further in his career than he would have otherwise and our family was none-the-worse for it. Not everyone is like that, but I don't see it as incomprehensible (or even a problem). Not really, maybe. I am a teamplayer and a people pleaser but I have some type A tendencies (types only tell a part of the story anyway). I have nothing to show for that though (not a top leet coder, not a top lead manager, etc. I am good, reliable but I am not shining). I think if I was more "type A" I would not let such things happen. > [1]: https://cdn.mykidlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/0211010.. https://cdn.mykidlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/0211010.... How did you do that :D
- rfrey 7y ago
  Will you also donate 12% of your salary to the company?
  - johnchristopher 7y ago
    Well... the company actually owes me money for travel expenses (which are the four digit numbers) that I had to pay upfront.

ThrustVectoring 7y ago

Mandatory leave is common in the financial sector, where it is used as an anti-fraud device. Keeping your employer from figuring out the scheme you're pulling is a lot harder when you have to have someone cover for you for two weeks.

amluto 7y ago
It’s not just anti-fraud. If you force someone to take a vacation, you force the organization to be able to function without them. This prevents a situation where only a single person is able to make something critical work.
- close04 7y ago
  In Europe this is pretty standard practice everywhere. Say you have 30 days of vacation per year. You have to take at least 20, and 10 of those have to be consecutive. Otherwise your manager gets a bollocking from their manager and HR. In theory at least. The rest of the days might be lost, transferred into next year’s vacation with a cutoff (like until end of Q1 next year or end of the year otherwise they are lost), or with no cutoff and they stack up forever.
  - ohlookabird 7y ago
    Yes, that's what experienced, too in Germany. Both in the private and public sector.
  - skinkestek 7y ago
    Here in Norway it is 5 workweeks (6 for those over 60 I think), 2 can be transferred (either way I think) and 3 are mandatory. And if you delay two weeks to next year that means 5 mandatory weeks that year. And: it is not just in theory. It is the law and both parts can get in trouble if you don't follow it.
    - MockObject 7y ago
      When people from here write "here", which "here" do they mean? The one here, or the one there?

solarmist 7y ago

LinkedIn does. The whole company goes on break for the 4th of July week and the last week of the year.

yomly 7y ago

I feel Palantir used to and I think Netflix does

jdsalaro 7y ago

At GitLab we have a very flexible PTO policy and although I've never heard of a colleague being forced to take time off, we do have a couple of stern remarks codified in our handbook and constantly remind each other to do so: > We don't frown on people taking time off, but rather encourage people to take care of themselves and others by having some time away. If you notice that your co-worker is working long hours over a sustained period, you may want to let them know about the time off policy. > Not taking vacation is viewed as a weakness and people shouldn't boast about it. It is viewed as a lack of humility about your role, not fostering collaboration in training others in your job, and not being able to document and explain your work. You are doing the company a disservice by being a single point of failure. The company must be able to go for long periods without you. We don't want to lose you permanently by you burning yourself out by not taking regular vacations. https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/paid-time-off/ https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/paid-time-off/