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On its own, this probably doesn't mean anything. But it's important for us to pay attention. Technologists live in a world of negative unemployment, so it's e

On its own, this probably doesn't mean anything. But it's important for us to pay attention. Technologists live in a world of negative unemployment, so it's easy to forget that everyone else is subject to macroeconomic cycles. Even if you were laid off after the Dot-Com Crash or the Great Recession, you didn't have it anywhere near as bad as someone outside this industry.

Diederich 7y ago
> Technologists live in a world of negative unemployment I would amend that to say: "Many technologists live in a world of frequently negative unemployment"
- outside1234 7y ago
  That won't last forever. I know Mozilla and Digital Ocean just had layoffs.
  - boernard 7y ago
    ... and there are many many HR departments going on a hunt for these people that got laid off
    - borkt 7y ago
      Is any tech worker seriously that desirable still that they are being hounded immediately after getting fired? I entered college in 2004 and transferred out of software engineering, feeling that developer/engineer jobs would quickly become the auto mechanic of the 21st century and wages at the grunt level would fall in line. I also didn't feel fulfilled with sitting at a computer all day. Fast forward to now, and while I work as a Civil Engineer I still find myself sitting at a computer all day regardless. While the pay is completely reasonable, I probably would be just as happy with my day-to-day working on software, while making more money from how things are looking. I grew up on IRC and building SMALL scripts starting in 5th or 6th grade for software of the day such as Palace, customizing small bits of code to rename items in the dreamcast version of Phantasy Star Online, etc. When I took the 1st year of software engineering classes at Cal Poly Software Engineering could code perfectly serviceable and had As/Bs. What would be the best way for me to dip my toe back in and see the type of work I'd be doing working in tech in 2020? Is there a way to bring my skills up to the current day through free or paid remote coursework, and are there ways to get small freelance work I could use to build my resume? Are there any good blogs following someone who has taken a similar path?
      - kevstev 7y ago
        Yes- layoffs typically happen for bigger reasons than just performance. It is a bit of a red flag, I mean clearly you were not the most critical person the company could not do without, but its happened to me and it has not been an issue. In a struggling company, layoffs can happen for many reasons including- being too junior, being too senior (costing too much), working on a feature/product that is getting killed- its a lot easier to just cut everyone on that project then to start cherry picking them and moving them, disagreeing with the strategy, and sometimes there is just a mandate to cut 20% and your team could all be great people and its just a tough decision to make... Dipping back in? Just code. Take some free classes on webdev, contribute to open source, build a portfolio of projects you can show off, you will get your foot in the door somewhere that might be a little crappy, but after a year or two it should be much easier for you to at least get a shot at a FAANG or a much better company.
        borkt 7y ago
        Great! I have a number of friends I still talk with once in a blue moon at FAANG, though socially rather than about work. I'll start talking to them to see what direction they see their companies/divisions moving and what skills they could use. And completely agreed about so many reasons to be laid off. My wife was forced out of a position at a very successful company not because of experience but because one single SVP was threatened by her. So many colleages were stunned to hear she left, but she ended up somewhere much more appreciative of her skills and experience.
      - yodsanklai 7y ago
        > while I work as a Civil Engineer Not answering your question, but just sharing some anecdote. A good friend of mine is a (unhappy) Civil Engineer and became passionate about programming. It's a hobby that he discovered later in his life. I can tell he's actually quite good (even though he lacks some fundamentals but he could learn fast). Unfortunately, I don't think he would be given a chance in company (here in France). My feeling is that the system is rather rigid, and there are some expectations for a junior developer job (a degree in the field, being less than 30). An option he could take and I think would work, is to take a one year CS program designed for people with different background. Some universities offer this type of program and it seems to work. Actually, I used to teach in such a program and the students were a joy to work with.
downerending 7y ago
> Technologists live in a world of negative unemployment Just wait until you turn 50...
- ellisv 7y ago
  Do you have any recommendations for someone earlier in their career (<50 yo) to avoid or minimize ageism? Go into management? Be prepared to pick a new career?
  - UncleOxidant 7y ago
    Seriously, your best bet (and the advice I would give my 20-something year old self) is to SAVE AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. And then save more than that. Try to be financially independent by 50. If you can do that then you won't have to worry about ageism. You'll be able to be picky about the kinds of jobs you take. From a practical standpoint that means don't buy status symbol products (cars, fancy phones, etc) - stick to practical (I drive a '98 Civic that cost me $2400 - great, reliable car). If you buy a house, buy a very practical one in a more affordable neighborhood. Learn to do your own maintenance. Keep your expenses as low as possible. If you don't have a Roth IRA start one today and begin fully funding it. If your work offers a Roth 401k option put some money in there too if you can. And of course, always be learning new things.
    - borkt 7y ago
      I'm in a similar spot. As enticing as a Tesla Model 3 Performance edition might be, my '00 civic with 220k miles, no heater, and a head gasket problem still gets me to work every day, and I have all the cash I need to replace it the day it dies. My wife and I are in our early 30s and our mortgage payment is less than most of our friends pay to rent a single room because we worked and saved through college. When I buy something nicer than I truly need for a hobby such as a Mountain Bike, I wait for a great price on a fixer-upper, perform the maintenance it needs, and enjoy it without getting attached, while at the same time putting it back up for sale at a higher price in case someone wants it more than I do. 9 times out of 10 the item will sell in a few months, and oddly enough I've met some incredibly interesting people who wanted properly restored items, such as a tie-dye founder whose been in business for over 50 years and an SVP at Cisco who's in charge of a product I had been using daily for years.
UncleOxidant 7y ago
I feel like in the dot-com crash it was technologists who got hit the worst. Most other industries were unscathed, or very little scathed for a short time. But in tech it was like winter for about 3 years.
- shams93 7y ago
  Yeah it was brutal I managed to scrape by doing short term contracts but it was some deep poverty and on top of it my options in Yahoo were upside down so I had not only poverty but a relentless IRS pursuing me for whatever they could for 10 years after dot bomb.

Diederich 7y ago

> Technologists live in a world of negative unemployment I would amend that to say: "Many technologists live in a world of frequently negative unemployment"

outside1234 7y ago
That won't last forever. I know Mozilla and Digital Ocean just had layoffs.
- boernard 7y ago
  ... and there are many many HR departments going on a hunt for these people that got laid off
  - borkt 7y ago
    Is any tech worker seriously that desirable still that they are being hounded immediately after getting fired? I entered college in 2004 and transferred out of software engineering, feeling that developer/engineer jobs would quickly become the auto mechanic of the 21st century and wages at the grunt level would fall in line. I also didn't feel fulfilled with sitting at a computer all day. Fast forward to now, and while I work as a Civil Engineer I still find myself sitting at a computer all day regardless. While the pay is completely reasonable, I probably would be just as happy with my day-to-day working on software, while making more money from how things are looking. I grew up on IRC and building SMALL scripts starting in 5th or 6th grade for software of the day such as Palace, customizing small bits of code to rename items in the dreamcast version of Phantasy Star Online, etc. When I took the 1st year of software engineering classes at Cal Poly Software Engineering could code perfectly serviceable and had As/Bs. What would be the best way for me to dip my toe back in and see the type of work I'd be doing working in tech in 2020? Is there a way to bring my skills up to the current day through free or paid remote coursework, and are there ways to get small freelance work I could use to build my resume? Are there any good blogs following someone who has taken a similar path?
    - kevstev 7y ago
      Yes- layoffs typically happen for bigger reasons than just performance. It is a bit of a red flag, I mean clearly you were not the most critical person the company could not do without, but its happened to me and it has not been an issue. In a struggling company, layoffs can happen for many reasons including- being too junior, being too senior (costing too much), working on a feature/product that is getting killed- its a lot easier to just cut everyone on that project then to start cherry picking them and moving them, disagreeing with the strategy, and sometimes there is just a mandate to cut 20% and your team could all be great people and its just a tough decision to make... Dipping back in? Just code. Take some free classes on webdev, contribute to open source, build a portfolio of projects you can show off, you will get your foot in the door somewhere that might be a little crappy, but after a year or two it should be much easier for you to at least get a shot at a FAANG or a much better company.
      - borkt 7y ago
        Great! I have a number of friends I still talk with once in a blue moon at FAANG, though socially rather than about work. I'll start talking to them to see what direction they see their companies/divisions moving and what skills they could use. And completely agreed about so many reasons to be laid off. My wife was forced out of a position at a very successful company not because of experience but because one single SVP was threatened by her. So many colleages were stunned to hear she left, but she ended up somewhere much more appreciative of her skills and experience.
    - yodsanklai 7y ago
      > while I work as a Civil Engineer Not answering your question, but just sharing some anecdote. A good friend of mine is a (unhappy) Civil Engineer and became passionate about programming. It's a hobby that he discovered later in his life. I can tell he's actually quite good (even though he lacks some fundamentals but he could learn fast). Unfortunately, I don't think he would be given a chance in company (here in France). My feeling is that the system is rather rigid, and there are some expectations for a junior developer job (a degree in the field, being less than 30). An option he could take and I think would work, is to take a one year CS program designed for people with different background. Some universities offer this type of program and it seems to work. Actually, I used to teach in such a program and the students were a joy to work with.

downerending 7y ago

> Technologists live in a world of negative unemployment Just wait until you turn 50...

ellisv 7y ago
Do you have any recommendations for someone earlier in their career (<50 yo) to avoid or minimize ageism? Go into management? Be prepared to pick a new career?
- UncleOxidant 7y ago
  Seriously, your best bet (and the advice I would give my 20-something year old self) is to SAVE AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. And then save more than that. Try to be financially independent by 50. If you can do that then you won't have to worry about ageism. You'll be able to be picky about the kinds of jobs you take. From a practical standpoint that means don't buy status symbol products (cars, fancy phones, etc) - stick to practical (I drive a '98 Civic that cost me $2400 - great, reliable car). If you buy a house, buy a very practical one in a more affordable neighborhood. Learn to do your own maintenance. Keep your expenses as low as possible. If you don't have a Roth IRA start one today and begin fully funding it. If your work offers a Roth 401k option put some money in there too if you can. And of course, always be learning new things.
  - borkt 7y ago
    I'm in a similar spot. As enticing as a Tesla Model 3 Performance edition might be, my '00 civic with 220k miles, no heater, and a head gasket problem still gets me to work every day, and I have all the cash I need to replace it the day it dies. My wife and I are in our early 30s and our mortgage payment is less than most of our friends pay to rent a single room because we worked and saved through college. When I buy something nicer than I truly need for a hobby such as a Mountain Bike, I wait for a great price on a fixer-upper, perform the maintenance it needs, and enjoy it without getting attached, while at the same time putting it back up for sale at a higher price in case someone wants it more than I do. 9 times out of 10 the item will sell in a few months, and oddly enough I've met some incredibly interesting people who wanted properly restored items, such as a tie-dye founder whose been in business for over 50 years and an SVP at Cisco who's in charge of a product I had been using daily for years.

UncleOxidant 7y ago

I feel like in the dot-com crash it was technologists who got hit the worst. Most other industries were unscathed, or very little scathed for a short time. But in tech it was like winter for about 3 years.

shams93 7y ago
Yeah it was brutal I managed to scrape by doing short term contracts but it was some deep poverty and on top of it my options in Yahoo were upside down so I had not only poverty but a relentless IRS pursuing me for whatever they could for 10 years after dot bomb.