4 ms·

I think it's safe to assume that any election that's done with software has been hacked unless proven otherwise. Of course there was foul play. Election fraud i

by mnm1 7y ago

I think it's safe to assume that any election that's done with software has been hacked unless proven otherwise. Of course there was foul play. Election fraud is currently a huge issue with a ton of players competing to be the ones rigging elections. When a secure, proven technology like mailed paper ballots exists, I question anyone who pushes computer solutions and immediately suspect them of wanting to commit fraud or incredible stupidity and incompetence. After all, if someone suggested to replace armored cars carrying money with unarmored convertibles without a top, what other conclusion can one draw?

JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Isn't that all speculation? I'm not aware of any verified election fraud, in the US. It's like Halloween candy, which everybody knows isn't safe but there are never any verified cases of a problem.
- mnm1 7y ago
  > but there are never any verified cases of a problem Funny how that happens when the logs and other evidence that would verify problems happen to have been destroyed.
- rhcom2 7y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/mccrae-dowless-indictment.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/mccrae-dowless-indictm...
- btilly 7y ago
  If you are not aware, then it is because you have not looked. https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
  - Frondo 7y ago
    The parent poster was referring to election fraud, not voter fraud. They're different. Voter fraud is when someone casts a vote they should not have, e.g. because they moved or they've cast multiple votes. Election fraud is when election officials tamper with the election. There are documented cases of both, but the Heritage website, documenting about 1,200 over a period of at least 20 years (I didn't check every state, but the earliest I saw was 2000) is an insignificant amount of voter fraud over 20 years and hundreds of millions of votes cast. Even if they underreported by a factor of 100, that's no threat to democracy.
    - btilly 7y ago
      Ah, election fraud like illegal voter suppression? Like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File? Or how about tampering with ballots after they have been cast like http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/election-fraud-is-real-and-it-involves-a-republican.html http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/election-fraud-is-rea...? (Of course if you go back a little ways in history, the most egregious was probably Tammany Hall. Election fraud has a rather long history.)

by mnm1 7y ago

JoeAltmaier 7y ago

Isn't that all speculation? I'm not aware of any verified election fraud, in the US. It's like Halloween candy, which everybody knows isn't safe but there are never any verified cases of a problem.

mnm1 7y ago
> but there are never any verified cases of a problem Funny how that happens when the logs and other evidence that would verify problems happen to have been destroyed.
rhcom2 7y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/mccrae-dowless-indictment.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/mccrae-dowless-indictm...
btilly 7y ago
If you are not aware, then it is because you have not looked. https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
- Frondo 7y ago
  The parent poster was referring to election fraud, not voter fraud. They're different. Voter fraud is when someone casts a vote they should not have, e.g. because they moved or they've cast multiple votes. Election fraud is when election officials tamper with the election. There are documented cases of both, but the Heritage website, documenting about 1,200 over a period of at least 20 years (I didn't check every state, but the earliest I saw was 2000) is an insignificant amount of voter fraud over 20 years and hundreds of millions of votes cast. Even if they underreported by a factor of 100, that's no threat to democracy.
  - btilly 7y ago
    Ah, election fraud like illegal voter suppression? Like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File? Or how about tampering with ballots after they have been cast like http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/election-fraud-is-real-and-it-involves-a-republican.html http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/election-fraud-is-rea...? (Of course if you go back a little ways in history, the most egregious was probably Tammany Hall. Election fraud has a rather long history.)