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Deleted logs and a server wiped clean days after a lawsuit was filed by election integrity activists, that is terrifying. If we can’t agree on a bipartisan bas

Deleted logs and a server wiped clean days after a lawsuit was filed by election integrity activists, that is terrifying. If we can’t agree on a bipartisan basis that this isn’t acceptable, what does that mean for our future?

swiley 7y ago
Isn't that tampering with evidence? Don't "normal people" get in trouble for similar things?
- ianai 7y ago
  Yes. That’s exactly what this is.
- makomk 7y ago
  Define "normal people". From what I remember of the emails that were obtained about this, the server was wiped as part of a post-compromise remediation plan by university IT security staff.
  - pbourke 7y ago
    Normal people are those who are not wealthy or politically connected such that issues like this can be made to disappear.
- lanternslight 7y ago
  Us Secretary of State didn't, so I guess politicians play with a different time book
  - pstuart 7y ago
    The buttery males? Oh my, that was a national security disaster! /s Edit: actually, she did get in "trouble". That faux controversy helped sway the election against her.
    - travisoneill1 7y ago
      You think violating State Department information security procedures is not a big deal?
      - pavlov 7y ago
        What does that have to do with election tampering in Georgia?
        pstuart 7y ago
        It's classic "whataboutism". You know, the disinformation technique the Soviets use(d): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
      - pstuart 7y ago
        It is a significant deal. She wasn't alone in doing so (her predecessors had engaged in similar behavior to a degree as well). What's interesting is that the heat and light about it wasn't followed by any legislative/policy action of note. It's almost like they weren't trying to right a wrong, but to politically assassinate her. The sitting president communicates on an unsecured iPhone. The WH staff is using alternate email systems and messaging to actively avoid leaving a trail. Let me know your concern about that and I'm happy to continue this conversation. Otherwise, you're engaging in partisan politics here and that's not good for HN.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - pjc50 7y ago
    These rules do not seem to be evenly or systematically enforced. https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/25/trumps-most-senior-staff-use-a-private-email-server/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/25/trumps-most-senior-staff...
ianai 7y ago
Means certain states like Georgia won’t be democratic. What the handful of people in power say goes. Doesn’t matter what the voters actually try to vote.
- creaghpatr 7y ago
  Good case for the electoral college, localize the corruption to the state-level.
  - ianai 7y ago
    That system has never acted as a deliberate body. It’s merely a way to further the tyranny of the minority.
  - jellicle 7y ago
    Can you explain more about how the electoral college is supposed to combat a state with corrupted elections?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      It partitions/firewalls the impact of the fraud to an individual state. The voting power of Georgia residents may have been compromised here, but the voting power of the rest of the country was unaffected. In a popular voting system, that would not be the case (if the fraud increased reported voter turnout, seizing more voting power into the fraudulent election, for example).
      - boomboomsubban 7y ago
        In both situations, the election is compromised. Knowing my vote was secure in a compromised election does not provide any benefit.
peterwwillis 7y ago
Keep in mind that you're reading a filtered, minimalist snippet of a probably very long and complicated case, and that whatever you're presuming from the article probably isn't the whole picture.
- mzs 7y ago
  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > https://twitter.com/KimZetter/status/1218058408927973376 https://twitter.com/KimZetter/status/1218058408927973376 From the security experts affidavit filed in Georgia court today: 15. On December 2, 2014, while the KSU server remained vulnerable, a new user named "shellshock" was created on the server. I have created the below timeline of activity related to the shellshock user after fusing logging data from multiple sources. The timeline may not be complete: 16. 12/2/2014 10:45 — the user mpears09 is modified using the Webmin console 12/2/2014 10:47 - shellshock user created using Webmin console 12/2/2014 10:49 - /home/shellshock/.bash histovy last modified 12/22014 11:02 - /home/shellshocWshellsh0ck file is deleted 12/2/2014 1106 - bash patched to version 4.2+dfsg-0.1+deb7u3 to prevent shellshock 12/2/2014 11:40 - shellshock user disabled using Webmin console 17. The file "bash history" is a kind of log that typically records all the commands a user executes. For this user, though, the file contained a single command to logout of the server. The single command to logout is suspicious since a file was created and deleted in the user's home directory, leading rne to believe the "bash history" has been modified. This indicates to rne that the "shellshock" user may have been hiding their activities.
  - peterwwillis 7y ago
    GP's comment was not about whether or not the server was attacked, please re-read.
  - washadjeffmad 7y ago
    Odd, I might have concluded that mpears09 logged into webmin, created the shellshock user via that interface, ran or implemented some variation of the shellshock patch script[1] manually as that user, and maybe cleaned up when he disabled it. The actions also might not have been executed in a way that would have been logged. Whether maintenance of some aspect of the CES server was part of his role at KSU at the time or if records exist of someone asking him to do that (or, say, to patch drupalgeddon and he did a 2-for-1) is what I wonder. [1] https://github.com/tibmeister/ShellShock-Patch https://github.com/tibmeister/ShellShock-Patch
vmchale 7y ago
> If we can’t agree on a bipartisan basis that this isn’t acceptable Dark times in America ahead.
- vanniv 7y ago
  Dark times in the West ahead generally, I'd say
corporate_shi11 7y ago
Unfortunately many people can't even accept that voter ID cards, which are used throughout the developed (and developing) world are reasonable means for securing elections. I gave up hope for reasonable discussions with "the other side" about election security a few years ago.
vanniv 7y ago
In our current society, where the other side is the greatest evil imaginable, the lesser evil of accepting fraud to secure victory is seen as preferable to losing. This is generally what the end of free society looks like.

swiley 7y ago

Isn't that tampering with evidence? Don't "normal people" get in trouble for similar things?

ianai 7y ago
Yes. That’s exactly what this is.
makomk 7y ago
Define "normal people". From what I remember of the emails that were obtained about this, the server was wiped as part of a post-compromise remediation plan by university IT security staff.
- pbourke 7y ago
  Normal people are those who are not wealthy or politically connected such that issues like this can be made to disappear.
lanternslight 7y ago
Us Secretary of State didn't, so I guess politicians play with a different time book
- pstuart 7y ago
  The buttery males? Oh my, that was a national security disaster! /s Edit: actually, she did get in "trouble". That faux controversy helped sway the election against her.
  - travisoneill1 7y ago
    You think violating State Department information security procedures is not a big deal?
    - pavlov 7y ago
      What does that have to do with election tampering in Georgia?
      - pstuart 7y ago
        It's classic "whataboutism". You know, the disinformation technique the Soviets use(d): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
    - pstuart 7y ago
      It is a significant deal. She wasn't alone in doing so (her predecessors had engaged in similar behavior to a degree as well). What's interesting is that the heat and light about it wasn't followed by any legislative/policy action of note. It's almost like they weren't trying to right a wrong, but to politically assassinate her. The sitting president communicates on an unsecured iPhone. The WH staff is using alternate email systems and messaging to actively avoid leaving a trail. Let me know your concern about that and I'm happy to continue this conversation. Otherwise, you're engaging in partisan politics here and that's not good for HN.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- pjc50 7y ago
  These rules do not seem to be evenly or systematically enforced. https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/25/trumps-most-senior-staff-use-a-private-email-server/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/25/trumps-most-senior-staff...

ianai 7y ago

Means certain states like Georgia won’t be democratic. What the handful of people in power say goes. Doesn’t matter what the voters actually try to vote.

creaghpatr 7y ago
Good case for the electoral college, localize the corruption to the state-level.
- ianai 7y ago
  That system has never acted as a deliberate body. It’s merely a way to further the tyranny of the minority.
- jellicle 7y ago
  Can you explain more about how the electoral college is supposed to combat a state with corrupted elections?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    It partitions/firewalls the impact of the fraud to an individual state. The voting power of Georgia residents may have been compromised here, but the voting power of the rest of the country was unaffected. In a popular voting system, that would not be the case (if the fraud increased reported voter turnout, seizing more voting power into the fraudulent election, for example).
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      In both situations, the election is compromised. Knowing my vote was secure in a compromised election does not provide any benefit.

peterwwillis 7y ago

Keep in mind that you're reading a filtered, minimalist snippet of a probably very long and complicated case, and that whatever you're presuming from the article probably isn't the whole picture.

mzs 7y ago
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > https://twitter.com/KimZetter/status/1218058408927973376 https://twitter.com/KimZetter/status/1218058408927973376 From the security experts affidavit filed in Georgia court today: 15. On December 2, 2014, while the KSU server remained vulnerable, a new user named "shellshock" was created on the server. I have created the below timeline of activity related to the shellshock user after fusing logging data from multiple sources. The timeline may not be complete: 16. 12/2/2014 10:45 — the user mpears09 is modified using the Webmin console 12/2/2014 10:47 - shellshock user created using Webmin console 12/2/2014 10:49 - /home/shellshock/.bash histovy last modified 12/22014 11:02 - /home/shellshocWshellsh0ck file is deleted 12/2/2014 1106 - bash patched to version 4.2+dfsg-0.1+deb7u3 to prevent shellshock 12/2/2014 11:40 - shellshock user disabled using Webmin console 17. The file "bash history" is a kind of log that typically records all the commands a user executes. For this user, though, the file contained a single command to logout of the server. The single command to logout is suspicious since a file was created and deleted in the user's home directory, leading rne to believe the "bash history" has been modified. This indicates to rne that the "shellshock" user may have been hiding their activities.
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  GP's comment was not about whether or not the server was attacked, please re-read.
- washadjeffmad 7y ago
  Odd, I might have concluded that mpears09 logged into webmin, created the shellshock user via that interface, ran or implemented some variation of the shellshock patch script[1] manually as that user, and maybe cleaned up when he disabled it. The actions also might not have been executed in a way that would have been logged. Whether maintenance of some aspect of the CES server was part of his role at KSU at the time or if records exist of someone asking him to do that (or, say, to patch drupalgeddon and he did a 2-for-1) is what I wonder. [1] https://github.com/tibmeister/ShellShock-Patch https://github.com/tibmeister/ShellShock-Patch

vmchale 7y ago

> If we can’t agree on a bipartisan basis that this isn’t acceptable Dark times in America ahead.

vanniv 7y ago
Dark times in the West ahead generally, I'd say

corporate_shi11 7y ago

Unfortunately many people can't even accept that voter ID cards, which are used throughout the developed (and developing) world are reasonable means for securing elections. I gave up hope for reasonable discussions with "the other side" about election security a few years ago.

vanniv 7y ago

In our current society, where the other side is the greatest evil imaginable, the lesser evil of accepting fraud to secure victory is seen as preferable to losing. This is generally what the end of free society looks like.