5 ms·

Great news but terrible that we're in this situation in the first place. Hopefully the Australian government wakes up to the climate crisis.

by arbol 7y ago

StavrosK 7y ago
I agree with you, but then what? This is an "everyone" problem, not an "Australia" problem.
- pjc50 7y ago
  Australia could stop trying to game or sabotage the existing efforts of "everyone": https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-16/australia-climate-carry-over-credits-slammed-cop25/11793818 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-16/australia-climate-car...
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Indeed, hence my agreement, but everyone else needs to do the same.
    - radicalbyte 7y ago
      If Australia and the USA both came to their senses then climate action would very much happen. China could also take the lead here; it's actually surprising that they aren't because it's an ideal opportunity for them to project power on a global scale and an important step in their replacing the USA as the global super power.
      - pjc50 7y ago
        Climate action does not project power or offer an economic return. It's pretty much guaranteed to be the opposite - forgoing an opportunity or building things at your expense in order to not disadvantage the rest of the world.
        bdamm 7y ago
        That's not guaranteed to be true. Leading the way on fostering new cleantech is a way to get ahead of the same cleantech industries elsewhere. The question is really how good can the timing be rather than if it's going to happen.
    - crispinb 7y ago
      Sure, but that needn't connote Australia waiting for everyone else. Given our extreme vulnerability to climate change (on most accounts, we're one of the worst-placed wealthy nations), our government should be fighting like hell on every possible international front for the strongest possible action. Our current government won't really even try, for extrinsic reasons; but even if it wanted to, it couldn't. Our piss-weak policies and decadal political sclerosis make us a laughing stock in the relevant international forums. This has only recently become apparent, as there's a lot of momentum in international affairs, and Australia did have a decent stock of political capital. But it's well and truly depleted now, at least in this area. Only serious domestic action on emissions can get our federal government positioned to actually do its job and make all possible efforts to protect the nation.
- adrianN 7y ago
  Australia does export a lot of coal. If they stopped doing that the price would probably rise a bit. AFAIK many coal plants are already barely profitable.
rb808 7y ago
If you had a hot shower in the last week you are the problem, don't blame the Australian government. (yes I had a hot shower)
- minikites 7y ago
  This is what you sound like: https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
  - rb808 7y ago
    Yeah you're right. There is nothing I can do, must be the Australian government's fault.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
genS3 7y ago
do we even have proof its due to climate crisis. eucalyptus is highly flammable, tourism increases, im pretty sure fires can start from some foil paper on the floor in those regions. also like the aboriginal australian use to do, you need to clean the bush and forests. we should focus our efforts onto that rather than talking about a philosophical "climate crisis" that wipes out concrete efforts that governements can lead to protect their forests.
- kaybe 7y ago
  This is not something that can be proven, the correlations are too complex and you have n=1. You can predict that probably statistically you'll see changing patterns of precipitation with changing climate leading to dryer woods, but whether that correlation holds is only clear with observed statistics, and whether that specific instance is connected can only be quantified probabilistically. Do you want to wait until we're reasonably sure that this specific issue is connected, let alone all the other things bound to happen? (Some more probable than others.) By then it'll be too late to roll it back or do anything but keep it from getting worse in a meaningful way.
  - bdamm 7y ago
    The point that we can revisit forest management practices regardless of climate change still holds though. While yes we may be seeing more fires due to climate change, we also may be able to make it less of a problem in the short term. And doing that doesn't take off the table doing something about climate change, so why not?
- pjc50 7y ago
  > philosophical "climate crisis" The climate crisis is very real and very observable.
  - genS3 7y ago
    it is not. it is a buzzword for medias and government to predent they do stuff "I ban straws" PC media liberal avatars of the feel-good green guy who recycles and think he is saving the planet doing it. Common this isn't finance where you invent complex words to hide the fact that you just commit crimes in front of everyone. We should stop pushing the "climate crisis" narrative and simply adress problems one by one. Another example: the media keep spreading the lies that going fulling vegetarian will save the planet. if everyone would do that, cow would disapear, child mortality will increase, humans will find way more intensive and poisonous ways to grow greens. Don't hide behind climate crisis marketing Buzzwords where people like gretta and gore those fake gurus led by businessmen are racking money scaring people away from real concrete mesures that we can apply to real issues such as protecting forests from fire. Once you pin it on climate crisis it literaly gives australian forest policies a pass.
crispinb 7y ago
> Hopefully the Australian government wakes up to the climate crisis It's very hard to imagine, given the current crew. They're pretty hard core on the motivated reasoning front. And they've moved from outright denial to a more nuanced accept-but-deflect position, which could go on for years with nothing meaningful happening. Expect little before the next federal election (2022).
- skeletonjelly 7y ago
  Not only that but a lot of our PM's office are ex mining/coal execs etc. https://reneweconomy.com.au/lobbyist-who-provided-morrisons-lump-of-coal-joins-pms-advisory-team-93806/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/lobbyist-who-provided-morrisons-...
  - crispinb 7y ago
    For sure - Australian politics at all levels has long been deeply corrupted by the mining & real estate industries. In that respect we're probably not very different from many other semi-democracies. Though the Australian voting population is notably easy to scare, and tends to be unthinkingly obedient to authority (larrikins, my arse).

Great news but terrible that we're in this situation in the first place. Hopefully the Australian government wakes up to the climate crisis.

by arbol 7y ago

Great news but terrible that we're in this situation in the first place. Hopefully the Australian government wakes up to the climate crisis.

StavrosK 7y ago

I agree with you, but then what? This is an "everyone" problem, not an "Australia" problem.

pjc50 7y ago
Australia could stop trying to game or sabotage the existing efforts of "everyone": https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-16/australia-climate-carry-over-credits-slammed-cop25/11793818 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-16/australia-climate-car...
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Indeed, hence my agreement, but everyone else needs to do the same.
  - radicalbyte 7y ago
    If Australia and the USA both came to their senses then climate action would very much happen. China could also take the lead here; it's actually surprising that they aren't because it's an ideal opportunity for them to project power on a global scale and an important step in their replacing the USA as the global super power.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      Climate action does not project power or offer an economic return. It's pretty much guaranteed to be the opposite - forgoing an opportunity or building things at your expense in order to not disadvantage the rest of the world.
      - bdamm 7y ago
        That's not guaranteed to be true. Leading the way on fostering new cleantech is a way to get ahead of the same cleantech industries elsewhere. The question is really how good can the timing be rather than if it's going to happen.
  - crispinb 7y ago
    Sure, but that needn't connote Australia waiting for everyone else. Given our extreme vulnerability to climate change (on most accounts, we're one of the worst-placed wealthy nations), our government should be fighting like hell on every possible international front for the strongest possible action. Our current government won't really even try, for extrinsic reasons; but even if it wanted to, it couldn't. Our piss-weak policies and decadal political sclerosis make us a laughing stock in the relevant international forums. This has only recently become apparent, as there's a lot of momentum in international affairs, and Australia did have a decent stock of political capital. But it's well and truly depleted now, at least in this area. Only serious domestic action on emissions can get our federal government positioned to actually do its job and make all possible efforts to protect the nation.
adrianN 7y ago
Australia does export a lot of coal. If they stopped doing that the price would probably rise a bit. AFAIK many coal plants are already barely profitable.

rb808 7y ago

If you had a hot shower in the last week you are the problem, don't blame the Australian government. (yes I had a hot shower)

minikites 7y ago
This is what you sound like: https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
- rb808 7y ago
  Yeah you're right. There is nothing I can do, must be the Australian government's fault.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

genS3 7y ago

do we even have proof its due to climate crisis. eucalyptus is highly flammable, tourism increases, im pretty sure fires can start from some foil paper on the floor in those regions. also like the aboriginal australian use to do, you need to clean the bush and forests. we should focus our efforts onto that rather than talking about a philosophical "climate crisis" that wipes out concrete efforts that governements can lead to protect their forests.

kaybe 7y ago
This is not something that can be proven, the correlations are too complex and you have n=1. You can predict that probably statistically you'll see changing patterns of precipitation with changing climate leading to dryer woods, but whether that correlation holds is only clear with observed statistics, and whether that specific instance is connected can only be quantified probabilistically. Do you want to wait until we're reasonably sure that this specific issue is connected, let alone all the other things bound to happen? (Some more probable than others.) By then it'll be too late to roll it back or do anything but keep it from getting worse in a meaningful way.
- bdamm 7y ago
  The point that we can revisit forest management practices regardless of climate change still holds though. While yes we may be seeing more fires due to climate change, we also may be able to make it less of a problem in the short term. And doing that doesn't take off the table doing something about climate change, so why not?
pjc50 7y ago
> philosophical "climate crisis" The climate crisis is very real and very observable.
- genS3 7y ago
  it is not. it is a buzzword for medias and government to predent they do stuff "I ban straws" PC media liberal avatars of the feel-good green guy who recycles and think he is saving the planet doing it. Common this isn't finance where you invent complex words to hide the fact that you just commit crimes in front of everyone. We should stop pushing the "climate crisis" narrative and simply adress problems one by one. Another example: the media keep spreading the lies that going fulling vegetarian will save the planet. if everyone would do that, cow would disapear, child mortality will increase, humans will find way more intensive and poisonous ways to grow greens. Don't hide behind climate crisis marketing Buzzwords where people like gretta and gore those fake gurus led by businessmen are racking money scaring people away from real concrete mesures that we can apply to real issues such as protecting forests from fire. Once you pin it on climate crisis it literaly gives australian forest policies a pass.

crispinb 7y ago

> Hopefully the Australian government wakes up to the climate crisis It's very hard to imagine, given the current crew. They're pretty hard core on the motivated reasoning front. And they've moved from outright denial to a more nuanced accept-but-deflect position, which could go on for years with nothing meaningful happening. Expect little before the next federal election (2022).

skeletonjelly 7y ago
Not only that but a lot of our PM's office are ex mining/coal execs etc. https://reneweconomy.com.au/lobbyist-who-provided-morrisons-lump-of-coal-joins-pms-advisory-team-93806/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/lobbyist-who-provided-morrisons-...
- crispinb 7y ago
  For sure - Australian politics at all levels has long been deeply corrupted by the mining & real estate industries. In that respect we're probably not very different from many other semi-democracies. Though the Australian voting population is notably easy to scare, and tends to be unthinkingly obedient to authority (larrikins, my arse).